Fast prime recommendations, specific use

Brownie

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Tim
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Nearing the end of racing season and I need to rethink next year's kit for when it gets dark. The 2.8 lenses I've been using are ok but a faster lens would be helpful. This is from a previous post in another thread discussing high ISOs, rather than typing it all out again:

The biggest problem is the type of photography. Almost everything I shoot is in motion with the desire to freeze it in place, which is not always possible when it gets dark. It's a balancing act between DOF, SS and ISO (well, isn't it always?:D) but with far more limitations at night.

I like to try and keep as much of the car in focus as I can, so my aperture is going to remain more closed than open. Trying to overexpose or ETTR is useless since I'm either trying to freeze or my shutter is already pushing the window for handheld. That leaves ISO. Many times I'll simply take static shots instead.

Up until now I've been shooting longer zooms at night like I do during the day. I need to rethink this, and believe part of my answer is to shoot a shorter FL from nearer, which will improve the DOF and allow slower shutters due to the FL. Of course it's not going to help in freezing motion, but I'll be in a position to pan standing next to the vehicle with a short lens. This may allow a bit of overexposure, even 1/3 stop would be welcomed.

Most of the night shots I've taken at the track so far have been 6400 or 8000, which seem to clean up pretty well, some better than others.
My main goal is to reduce ISO as much as possible, and maybe gain a stop in shutter speed. Shooting the 2.8 lenses has me in the 6400-8000 range, and I think maybe even 10,000 once in a while. The thing is there is no room there to even bump the shutter a tiny bit. If I can gain a stop or two it'd help a lot. ISO 8000 becomes 4000, and a 1/60 shutter becomes 1/125. Those two alone would be huge. Or if need be I shoot the slower shutter and get ISO to 2000 or even 1600.

This Saturday may be my last trip to the track for the year. It's a small event and I'm just going to try some shots using faster primes. It's unlikely I'll be shooting at night for this test, it's more about checking DOF and where I need to locate myself along the wall with a fixed FL. Right now I have only two fast primes, a 35/1.4 and a 50/1.7. The 50 is an A-Mount, but I don't expect that to be a problem based on recent A to E experiences with the 7-IV and LE-EA5.

The 35 will probably be a go-to for this in the future, but I doubt the 50 is really a usable FL for this setting. I'm thinking the second prime would be something in the 85-135 range. Looking back at my photos 100mm shows up quite a bit in the EXIF. Unfortunately faster primes seem to be limited to the 85 and 135 FLs, except for Sigma's 105. That brings me to the next issue, cost.

As I've stated many times, I'm not a prime shooter. I am not a portrait photographer. Other than this specific use the lens isn't going to see much time out of the bag. Given that, spending thousands on it makes no sense to me. I need decent IQ and speed but don't care about smooth bokeh, size and weight, etc.

I've checked out a few options. Samyang makes an 85/1.8 that gets excellent reviews and can be had used for <$500. Another option may be the old Minolta Maxxum 100/2 for about the same cost, but I'd need to know how well it does on the adapter before I spent the $.

Neither of those offer more than a 1-1/3 stops though. While I normally don't fret over 1/3 or a 1/2 stop, it seems to be more critical in this application. I'd really rather get to /1.4 if possible. The whole problem is movement, if those damned cars would just do a wheel stand and SET STILL for a minute I'd be all set! :ROFLMAO:

Another criteria is (probably) autofocus. I may try some zone focusing out there to see how well that works, but I'm afraid that with these shallow DOFs and a moving subject, that would be challenging at best and most likely result in too many failed shots. I'd be back to shooting the cars when they're static.

One other possibility is that the new owners will improve the abysmal lighting at the track next year. They made a lot of improvements and did many updates this season, but they had limited time to do as much as it needs. There is some hope the PA and lighting systems will be updated. If they do that, Then I wouldn't need to do anythign different, I could shoot what I have. But then...where's the fun in that?!!

What other suggestions for a lower cost lens with the specs given? Anyone have experience with that Minolta 100 on an adapter? What about some 1.4 lens options?
 
135 1.8? Probably far too costly.
 
Hi Tim, I have not used the Minolta 100 f2 on an adaptor I think my son still has the sony 2.8 a-mount but that is not what you are asking, so my gut tells me given your criteria go with the native glass one of the e-mount options
 
The Sigma DG DN Art 85mm goes hard! It's a really lovely build and great size too. 🙂
 
The Sigma DG DN Art 85mm goes hard! It's a really lovely build and great size too. 🙂
It made the list, but only used. I'd have a hard time spending $900 on something that'll get used 2-3 times a year. If I can find one around $500 it'd be a viable contender.
 
It made the list, but only used. I'd have a hard time spending $900 on something that'll get used 2-3 times a year. If I can find one around $500 it'd be a viable contender.

If it means anything. I basically bought it just because I thought it looked so awesome, then later realised that I could use it occasionally too, although forced... 😄

It does deliver absolutely stunning images! 🏆
 
I've seen samples and agree. Since you really only bought yours because it looked awesome, I could take it off your hands for a couple hundred bucks US.

Eh?
 
Ya' never know 'till you try!
 
Well, you guys ain't any help! :LOL:

After going through just every lens I can find from 85-135 in both A and E mounts I've come to the conclusion that there's no magic bullet in this case. I will either need to go with one of the lower priced options in 1.8, or commit to spending more to get the next half-stop. Even though it's about as close to the perfect FL as I can find, I think the Minolta 100/2 is out of the running because I'd really want to see how it acts on the adapter and f/2 is really pushing it.

The next step in this is to shoot with the two primes I have this weekend and see how well it goes. It's really just a matter of less flexibility. Since I'm static and the subjects are moving a distance all the time I'll have to pass on some shots that would be possible with a zoom.
 
Well, you guys ain't any help! :LOL:

After going through just every lens I can find from 85-135 in both A and E mounts I've come to the conclusion that there's no magic bullet in this case. I will either need to go with one of the lower priced options in 1.8, or commit to spending more to get the next half-stop. Even though it's about as close to the perfect FL as I can find, I think the Minolta 100/2 is out of the running because I'd really want to see how it acts on the adapter and f/2 is really pushing it.

The next step in this is to shoot with the two primes I have this weekend and see how well it goes. It's really just a matter of less flexibility. Since I'm static and the subjects are moving a distance all the time I'll have to pass on some shots that would be possible with a zoom.
Sorry Tim the lenses you are asking about are not my focal length, so I am as mentioned above useless on this one, but I have told the Samyang lens are worth a look and perform well for the outlay.
 
There are 105mm f/1.4 lenses, but I don’t know if they do E mount. That’s the longest f/1.4 I can think of. The one I’ve seen was a big lens, but if you want to get the f/1.4…

Shame you ruled out 50mm, because the 50 GM is really good - instant auto-focus, razor sharp wide open, and that’s at f/1.2, getting you 2 and a bit stops over 2.8.
 
There are 105mm f/1.4 lenses, but I don’t know if they do E mount. That’s the longest f/1.4 I can think of. The one I’ve seen was a big lens, but if you want to get the f/1.4…

Shame you ruled out 50mm, because the 50 GM is really good - instant auto-focus, razor sharp wide open, and that’s at f/1.2, getting you 2 and a bit stops over 2.8.
It's only ruled out due to FL, at least for now. I'm going to play with one out there and see how it goes this weekend. Maybe once I mess with it I'll find my speculation is wrong. On the other hand, I'd never spend $2k on a 50, that's insane. Odds are the 50/1.7 Maxxum will probably be plenty.
 
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Sorry Tim the lenses you are asking about are not my focal length, so I am as mentioned above useless on this one, but I have told the Samyang lens are worth a look and perform well for the outlay.
Samyang is definitely way at the top. My experience with several of them has been very good.
 
Mounted the Maxxum 50/1.7 and went out front to get some idea of FOV with moving vehicles. It may end up a more useful lens than I thought in this setting. The cars in the near lane are fairly close to the same distance from me as they are at the track. The cars in the far lane are abut 10' closer.

This is uncropped and a typical composition out there. The light area at the far left of the shot is the tree I was hiding behind so I didn't irritate the drivers. People tend to speed out there and I didn't want some clown to think I was gathering evidence!
52396318067_05f0b09a44_o.jpg
  • ILCE-7M4
  • 50mm F1.7
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.7
  • 1/800 sec
  • ISO 100


The old screw-drive lens and adapter did a pretty decent job of staying in focus. These cars are going about 30-35 MPH, so a bit easier on the gear and panning. This image is slightly cropped.

52397121124_bb9528d711_o.jpg
  • ILCE-7M4
  • 50mm F1.7
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.7
  • 1/800 sec
  • ISO 100


Vehicles on the far side were mostly ok from a 'fill the frame' standpoint. This one is pretty short by our standards, and is cropped.

52397121199_c80075b30c_o.jpg
  • ILCE-7M4
  • 50mm F1.7
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.7
  • 1/800 sec
  • ISO 100


This full-sized pickup with an extended cab filled the frame completely, this is uncropped.

52396828181_1ecb11e65c_o.jpg
  • ILCE-7M4
  • 50mm F1.7
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.7
  • 1/800 sec
  • ISO 100


Interesting results for a FOV I wasn't sure would be much use, but it may be too close to the 35/1.4 I have for decent variation. Hoping to find out today.
 
Tim which adapter is that glass on, and if the a74 has a e- front curtain shutter try turning it off with the old Minolta glass
 
LA-EA5. I never use the electronic shutter.
 
These turned out well mate. I think Gary may be talking about the e-front curtain start setting. As the default in the camera is that the first part of shutter is with the electronic shutter, then the mechanical one takes over.

I personally have that off for action. I think I read somewhere that it might be an advantage with fast SS in the A7RIII. It makes the camera sound like a steam train...

I'm probably saying stuff you already know, but hey, I'm feeling like a smart person this morning... 🤓
 
Thanks to both of you. I'll check. I may have turned it off when I first got the camera, can't recall. After some research it appears they advise to turn it off for Konica-Minolta A-Mount glass, thanks to Gary for pointing that out. I've never had issues with the old Minolta glass so I'm thinking I already turned it off. And now you got me thinking that even if I did, I may not have programmed it into my custom mode.

And now that you mentioned it, I know I never turned it off on the A7R-III.
 
LA-EA5. I never use the electronic shutter.
ok so if shooting with standard shutter turn front curtain shutter off as this tends to even the colours and shading on the old Minolta glass, check Sony site
 
ok so if shooting with standard shutter turn front curtain shutter off as this tends to even the colours and shading on the old Minolta glass, check Sony site
We crossed in cyber space, see my post above yours.
 
yep Tim, I found it helps with the old glass it evens light and shade and evens colour issues, I did not explain very well
Nonetheless it caused me to check. Both cameras had it programmed in. It is now off. Thanks again.
 
Both lenses did a decent job. The Maxxum 50/1.7 took a little more effort in post, quite possibly due to the front curtain shutter/exposure thing. I'll have to run some tests just for the heck of and see how it does. Ultimately though, the 50 and 35 are too close together to tie up two cameras. An 85 on the other camera would be more versatile.

The 50
DSC07492 by Shotglass Photo, on Flickr

The 35 is actually a pretty usable lens for this setting. I went back through my shots of this past season and didn't see many where I'd used 30-40 so I wasn't sure. It all comes down to how I position myself. Using primes are going to force me to me the zoom, but then we all know that, and I'm just lazy!

DSC04111 by Shotglass Photo, on Flickr
 
Based on the results and the minimal need for this lens the Samyang/Rokinon 85/1.4 is probably the way I'll go. It appears that they've just released a new version which will hopefully mean a glut of used first-versions on the market.
 
Hi Tim
I’m a bit late to the party but if you are still looking for a fast lens that doesn’t break the bank then I can thoroughly recommend the Samyang 85mm F1.4 it is excellent it’s also auto focus..
 
Hi Tim
I’m a bit late to the party but if you are still looking for a fast lens that doesn’t break the bank then I can thoroughly recommend the Samyang 85mm F1.4 it is excellent it’s also auto focus..
That's likely the way I'll go. I think between it and the 35 I'll be in decent shape, if a bit limited. Thanks!
 
Testing the just obtained 85/1.4 in less than stellar conditions. Can't wait for some sun. A bit of fringing but not bad considering the extremes in the shots.

85 2 by telecast, on Flickr

85 1 by telecast, on Flickr
 
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