Just for kicks: How would you design the next Sony APS-C Camera?

[FowlersFreeTime]

I have to be honest, if I were looking for a new camera right now this would be high on my list of possibles, the need to change out all my lenses notwithstanding . Still, at $2500 it's an awfully expensive entry into APS-C. It's clearly aimed directly at the Vlogger market with the video features and that new power zoom lens.

7 stops of IBIS equals the new OM-1. Anything matching M-4/3 in IBIS up to this point has been unheard of. I hope this bodes well for future releases from Sony.

Actually, I don't think this is aimed at the same "vlogger" market segment that Sony was aiming for. I think it's more upscale than that, especially given the price.
Considering that Fuji doesn't do full frame cameras, I see the XT4 as their competitor to a6600 or A7C and this new X-H2S would be the competitor to a Sony A7SIII or even A7IV. The capabilities scream video-centric like an A7SIII or FX3.

Venturing down that line of thought, I wouldn't expect so many features on Sony's next APSC. No, that would cannibalize sales from the A7SIII AND they would probably like to keep it at/under $2000 USD. So to compromise, you would have decisions like:
- mini HDMI, not full HDMI out
- less effective IBIS (because... Sony)
- less video profiles/codecs, I wouldn't even expect S Cinetone (because... Sony)
- I would expect fully articulated screen now that they have embraced the trend
- New processor would be a most, but they might go "cheap" or "good enough" here.
- If they give us a stacked sensor (please?), I bet it will be 24mp again, so it doesn't cannibalize sales from full frame lineup.
- The price of a "flagship" Sony APSC would have to be $1500-$1800 to be jussst shy of the A7C's MSRP... or below the price of a theoretical A7CII.

 

[Brownie]

Actually, I don't think this is aimed at the same "vlogger" market segment that Sony was aiming for. I think it's more upscale than that, especially given the price.
Considering that Fuji doesn't do full frame cameras, I see the XT4 as their competitor to a6600 or A7C and this new X-H2S would be the competitor to a Sony A7SIII or even A7IV. The capabilities scream video-centric like an A7SIII or FX3.

Venturing down that line of thought, I wouldn't expect so many features on Sony's next APSC. No, that would cannibalize sales from the A7SIII AND they would probably like to keep it at/under $2000 USD. So to compromise, you would have decisions like:
- mini HDMI, not full HDMI out
- less effective IBIS (because... Sony)
- less video profiles/codecs, I wouldn't even expect S Cinetone (because... Sony)
- I would expect fully articulated screen now that they have embraced the trend
- New processor would be a most, but they might go "cheap" or "good enough" here.
- If they give us a stacked sensor (please?), I bet it will be 24mp again, so it doesn't cannibalize sales from full frame lineup.
- The price of a "flagship" Sony APSC would have to be $1500-$1800 to be jussst shy of the A7C's MSRP... or below the price of a theoretical A7CII.

Agreed.

Perhaps I used the wrong term. Instead of 'vlogger', maybe 'content creator'. Someone who actually makes $ with their camera, along with those like many of us who purchase in the pro-sumer range.

I don't think the A7C is in contention for this spot. The reduced size/weight/cost of crop sensor camera lenses will always be a huge factor for many, many people.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Agreed.

Perhaps I used the wrong term. Instead of 'vlogger', maybe 'content creator'. Someone who actually makes $ with their camera, along with those like many of us who purchase in the pro-sumer range.

Yes, I think we're on the same page here.

I don't think the A7C is in contention for this spot. The reduced size/weight/cost of a crop sensor camera is always going to be a huge factor for many, many people.

I actually worry that Sony will continue to cripple APSC cameras (or at least sacrifice R&D funds) in order to encourage users to make the jump to full frame, with the A7C being the entry-level Full Frame. Heck they're even similar in size and shape. So yes, I do believe a well spec'd APSC could cannibalize A7C sales. It would for me... but then again I've invested in APSC glass, so others' mileage may vary.

 

[pointreyes]

I'm more excited by the lens roadmap and the next Fujifilm camera.
A 30 f2.8 macro would by a nice addition to my XF 60 and XF 80 macro lenses.
Anxiously waiting for Tamron to release the 17-70 f2.8 X-mount, it appears to be an incredible lens for infrared on the E-mount.
The X-H2, not stacked sensor, will have a 40 MP sensor. Quite curious to see how that high of resolution in APSC will do. I know there was some frustration for Canon users when they released their 33 MP APSC sensor years ago but I suspect the RF lenses will help out. The R7 looks be a competitor to the X-H2.

Sony is releasing some new APSC glass but with Canon R7 and Fujifilm X-H2, you would hope Sony will be coming out with something for a new camera.

 

[Brownie]

Yes, I think we're on the same page here.

I actually worry that Sony will continue to cripple APSC cameras (or at least sacrifice R&D funds) in order to encourage users to make the jump to full frame, with the A7C being the entry-level Full Frame. Heck they're even similar in size and shape. So yes, I do believe a well spec'd APSC could cannibalize A7C sales. It would for me... but then again I've invested in APSC glass, so others' mileage may vary.

I think when we talk about stealing sales from one format to another it's more about those who haven't yet made up their mind. When I jumped ship from M-4/3 it cost me a bundle to replace all of my lenses. Even though we see a lot of it on the forum (where someone came from Nikon or Canon) it's not typical. Most people would stick with their lenses and update a body. Dedicated photography forums aren't really a microcosm of the industry, we represent only a handful of the dedicated few.

I'm not sure Sony has an interest in wooing people away from APS-C. Last I knew the industry as a whole sells way more APS-C cameras than FF. Think about how many APS-C lenses would have to be eliminated if they killed the format. Heck, they're announcing 3 new APS-C lenses tomorrow!

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-upcoming-10-20mm-f-4-0-aps-c-e-mount-lens-has-powerzoom/

Think about how long it took Sony to stop the A-Mount, even though the E-Mount had been out for years and years. I think it was early 2021 when they stopped the A-Mount, but the E-Mount had been around since 2010.

I think the APS-C format is safe for a very long time!

 

[pointreyes]

I just watched pal2tech's video and WOW!

Fujifilm XH2s Features Review: Fuji's Perfect Hybrid Camera?

#fujifilm #xh2s #photographyReview of Fujifilm XH2s features. Could the Fujifilm XH2s be Fujifilm's perfect hybrid camera? Fujifilm XH2s and XH2 new camera a...

www.youtube.com

Sometimes I want a second stacked sensor camera to pair up with my A1 using the 70-200 GM II for events.
The X-H2s is a little more than the 24-70 GM II, but I happen to already own the Fujifilm red badge 16-55 f2.8. That range is a little less important over the 70-200 range but it is still needed. The red badge zooms have linear motors and the 16-55 was always my favorite in the Fujifilm red badge zooms line-up. This would allow me to keep my GM primes and not care about those few times I wish I had the 24-70 range in a zoom. Here's hoping the improved AF is good as Fujifilm hyped it up to.

 

[AlphaWorld]

I would be surprised to see a stacked sensor in a cheap Sony APS-C camera. In an expensive one, lining up with the concept of bodies like Nikon’s D500, or Canon’s 7D, then yes, but I don’t know if Sony wants to confuse things with such a body.

I would strongly urge you not to hold your breath for a stacked APS-C sensor. Still, it could be fun to have an A1-mini

 

[Brownie]

Here you go @FowlersFreeTime! Just what the doctor ordered!

Likely wrong A7000 rumor from China: 24Mp, $1699, 4k30p​

Likely wrong A7000 rumor from China: 24Mp, $1699, 4k30p - sonyalpharumors

Some Chinese forum shared those A7000 specs that are 99% likely to be NOT true. But just for the sake of clickbait…sorry… “discussion” I will share them for you :) A7000 24MP CMOS BIONZ XR 11fps continuous shooting 6K full-pixel hypersampling 4K/30fps Super Sampling 1080p XAVC SI / HS recording...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Here you go @FowlersFreeTime! Just what the doctor ordered!

Likely wrong A7000 rumor from China: 24Mp, $1699, 4k30p​

Likely wrong A7000 rumor from China: 24Mp, $1699, 4k30p - sonyalpharumors

Some Chinese forum shared those A7000 specs that are 99% likely to be NOT true. But just for the sake of clickbait…sorry… “discussion” I will share them for you :) A7000 24MP CMOS BIONZ XR 11fps continuous shooting 6K full-pixel hypersampling 4K/30fps Super Sampling 1080p XAVC SI / HS recording...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

Well that's an interesting photo-chop haha!

• I wouldn't lament the loss of the rangefinder style evf, though I am right-eye-dominant and the placement of the a6400's evf hasn't been a problem; it was just too small.
• The prominent eye-piece however, if this render is to be believed, would suggest an articulated screen since a flip up would no longer work.
• Also looks like they lifted the mode dial from the A74 for this franken-render, which is interesting.
• The render is missing a dedicated video button, which I believe is now standard practice and a good thing too, because the a6xxx series had a weird little video button on the edge of the grip (so dumb).
• I believe the render might be correct in that there won't be a front dial, though I am surprised to see the power switch wasn't swapped out for a zoom rocker.

Honestly, I'd be ok if they kept the resolution at 24mp as long as they have a faster chipset to reduce rolling shutter. I will embrace the Z battery and toss my old batteries in a heartbeat. Finally, I very much welcome ANY IBIS.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

I love the gist of the comments on that site: "These specs are underwhelming enough to be true, but the render is terrible and probably inaccurate"

If this camera does come out and the sensor is the same as the one I have and there's no improvement to image quality (or dynamic range), or stability in video, or rolling shutter... Then there's no reason for me to upgrade until my a6400 breaks down.

 

[Brownie]

Yeah, I just thought it was funny with the title "Likely wrong'! There's an awful lot of odd stuff on there, like that LCD screen on the top for settings, and there's no front dial. I can't imagine them making another full sized body with only one dial like some of their old DSLRs were. There have been rumors about an 'A7000' for years. Will it materialize?

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Yeah, I just thought it was funny with the title "Likely wrong'! There's an awful lot of odd stuff on there, like that LCD screen on the top for settings, and there's no front dial. I can't imagine them making another full sized body with only one dial like some of their old DSLRs were. There have been rumors about an 'A7000' for years. Will it materialize?

Yes I saw the rumor first on Facebook and laughed at the title.
I don't think they will put a front dial on anything less than a full frame; oh and that LCD is pointless on an APSC camera where real-estate is very limited.

As for naming convention; I don't think it would be called "a7000" because this previously existed:

So the next alpha APSC will either be a6700, or they will come up with some silly name like they did with the "ZV-E10"

 

[Brownie]

Yes I saw the rumor first on Facebook and laughed at the title.
I don't think they will put a front dial on anything less than a full frame; oh and that LCD is pointless on an APSC camera where real-estate is very limited.

As for naming convention; I don't think it would be called "a7000" because this previously existed:

So the next alpha APSC will either be a6700, or they will come up with some silly name like they did with the "ZV-E10"

Interesting take, but I think A7000 is a natural, and is derived from the A7 series body size and the 0000 series for APS-C. It makes sense.

 

[Brownie]

BTW, don't be dissin' on the Maxxum 7000, I still have two!

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

BTW, don't be dissin' on the Maxxum 7000, I still have two!

I respect my elders

 

[Brownie]

I respect my elders

Wait...you mean me or the camera?

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Wait...you mean me or the camera?

Both, but in this case the camera Our technology stands on the shoulders of that which came before, so respect is due.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Yes I saw the rumor first on Facebook and laughed at the title.
I don't think they will put a front dial on anything less than a full frame; oh and that LCD is pointless on an APSC camera where real-estate is very limited.

As for naming convention; I don't think it would be called "a7000" because this previously existed:

So the next alpha APSC will either be a6700, or they will come up with some silly name like they did with the "ZV-E10"

No, it's entirely possible that they would call it the A7000, so they would get extra buzz from people like you complaining that it's not the "real" A7000.

Or they could call it the A7001 to start a new range - I note that the "frankenrender" shares many feature with your beloved A7000 - no front dial, prism hump, top display - oh, do we think we know the inspiration for this lie?

 

[Brownie]

lie?

There are no lies, only rumors...

 

[AlphaWorld]

There are no lies, only rumors...

this is a camera forum - we are expected to over-react, to dramatise, to call things outrageous and unbelievable and lies.

Or am I confusing this thread with a "reality" TV show?

But never call anything fake news (even if it's SonyAlphaRumors), because that evokes too many scary memories...

 

[Brownie]

this is a camera forum - we are expected to over-react, to dramatise, to call things outrageous and unbelievable and lies.

Or am I confusing this thread with a "reality" TV show?

But never call anything fake news (even if it's SonyAlphaRumors), because that evokes too many scary memories...

You need a sense of humor.

BTW, no politics. I know it's difficult for some of you, best to find a space for a few days.

 

[AlphaWorld]

You need a sense of humor.

BTW, no politics. I know it's difficult for some of you, best to find a space for a few days.

I choose to have a sense of humour instead :-D