Number of subforums

[Ziggy]

Many only have a few posts.

That reduces the scope for accidentally finding interest or significance.

Like a party. Do you prefer the buzzing room or the almost empty one?

I suggest combining the obvious ones - like the Marks in bodies. They share more than they differ.

 

[Tim Mayo]

Thanks for the feedback Ern. I know a lot of the camera forums are quiet or have zero posts right now, but I'm hopefully that this will change as I promote the forum more. I've been holding back a little as I wanted the latest forum software up and running as it fixed quite a few bugs and added some useful features. I have thought about combining some of the cameras like the a7 series into one group, but I'm finding with the Facebook groups people prefer dedicated camera groups and these groups grow much faster than combined groups like the a9/a9II group that I run. I've had quite a few people comment in my a7R IV group as well that they prefer this group as it's model specific, some people only want to see images and discussion around their exact camera model, even if the differences to the previous model aren't all that big. There are also SEO benefits to having model specific forums. So yes I know things look pretty quiet right now, but I'm confident that things will look very different in 6 months time.

 

[Ziggy]

I hope you're right Tim.

In a range of fields I don't see forums competing well with FB groups unless they were well established and vigorous.

 

[Tim Mayo]

I hope you're right Tim.

In a range of fields I don't see forums competing well with FB groups unless they were well established and vigorous.

That is true and something I have put some thought into. I have a few ideas though along with some new features I'd like to get developed for the forum. I think the Facebook Groups and forum can work together. I also know quite a few photographers who aren't on Facebook so it's nice to be able to offer them something. There are lots of changes coming to Facebook Groups though, some good and some not so good. All of my groups are public because I like members to be accountable for what they post and write, this seems to work quite well as I see a lot more nasty comments in private groups. Unfortunately Facebook is planning to let anyone join public groups without admin approval. I approve all members as carefully as I can so I'm pretty disappointed by this change, along with the new layout recently launched. I'll wait and see how it goes when it rolls out but I may need to convert all my groups to private. It is nice to have a little more control over things with the forum.

 

[Ziggy]

Here's some odd thoughts from my life as a sociologist ...

One question is what is an online community and how do you foster it?

The FB UI isn't good for even the basic need of managing a conversation. It's shaped by the goal of posting pics from your phone, and it's good at that.

Community means like-mindedness and shared norms like reciprocity. FB doesn't encourage reciprocity and the FB-habituated usually make poor forum members. Clicking Like isn't an exchange.

Group owners set norms but often don't enforce them so members decide not to stick to them either.

One photo forum I was on announced that members were expected to make 3 comments on others' pics for every pic they posted themselves. What had been varied engagement with sometimes deep comments beforehand turned into shallow routinised responses afterwards (eg. 'nice series'.) Community isn't about exchange though it facilitates it.

There's a size effect: you don't develop community with people you can't remember. You don't deepen a conversation when people you don't know step into it.

 

[Tim Mayo]

Some good food for thought there Ern!

I think an online community at its most simplistic form is a place where people can come together and share a common interest. Fostering it can be broken down into two parts: the platform itself and moderation.

Without a solid platform in place that is intuitive and works well it's unlikely that members are going to hang around for very long, and at the same time like you mention if the community isn't well moderated then members will also be heading for the door.

My aim with this community is to create a friendly place where members can share their love of photography and Sony Alpha, by simply sharing photos or getting into deeper discussions if they choose.

I decided to put more of an emphasis on the different niches to help members engage with other members who share the same passions, this is why the niche forums and not the camera specific forums are more prominent here. This has worked well for the niche Facebook Groups that I run.

This is the first forum that I've run, so it's also a learning curve for me, although the Facebook Groups have proved to be very insightful. Only time will tell if I'm sailing the ship in the right direction!

 

[Ziggy]

I wish you well Tim.

There are several other Sony forums and they're low traffic. They're not places I'd go expecting to find experienced user comment on the latest lens for example.

I think you'll have to win 'market share' from FB to thrive here.

 

[Tim Mayo]

Thank you Ern!

I do like a challenge. If it was easy there would be millions of Sony forums!

I know there is talkemount.com which is up for sale. Amin who runs it approached me to buy it from him recently but it's not something that I'd like to take on. I don't really want to run two separate Sony forums and merging them together even with them running the same forum software would be very difficult. I don't know if Amin is a Sony shooter himself, if not, I think that can make it more challenging to run and grow a forum.

Then there's the SonyAlphaForum run by the team at SonyAlphaRumors. It's very heavy on the ads which are poorly implemented and again it doesn't look like the admins get that involved.

You are definitely right about having to win 'market share' from Facebook Groups. It's incredible how quickly some groups can grow there. My a7III Shooters Group regularly adds over 250 members each week! In total I'm adding around 600-700 members each week across all of my Sony groups. In comparison I'm adding around 50 members a week here, although it is early days I'd be surprised if I ever add 600-700 members in a single week here!

Of course it's not all about membership numbers, the quality of the members and engagement is a lot more important.

Have a nice Sunday!

 

[Ziggy]

Indeed.

Yes, Amin was an early adapter adopter ;-)

There's also the Sony sides of DPReview (too often a bear pit) and Fred Miranda (not differentiated).

 

[Ziggy]

For birds regardless of brand there's dedicated US and Aus forums. The Aus one is run like a photo competition (with ancient software). Getting approved for the US one is hit and miss.
Steve Perry has started a forum off the back of his website and books and that's humming along.
FB IMO has had a corrupting influence on community building. It's shallow, and having an opinion, and sharing it, is good enough. Plus many people only take and don't give.

 

[Tim Mayo]

Thanks Ern. It's good to discover other forums that I was not aware of. I had a quick look at Steve's and it does appear to be humming along nicely. It's always good to see what format is working for other forum owners as well.

Maybe you'll be adding a bird forum to run alongside your Facebook Group soon?

There are pros and cons to Facebook Groups, but probably more cons sadly. I know they are developing the groups heavily though so I expect they might look very different in 12 months from now. Although possibly not for the best, especially with what they are planning to do with public groups which mine all are at present.

 

[Ziggy]

What is FB doing?

Yes, I like what's happening over at Steve's place ;-) There's generosity and there's a concern with improvement, both of which are tones if you like set by Steve.

In Aus we have a heap of bird FB groups already inc at least two devoted to photography and while those two are likely to have more quality shots there's still a strong vibe of photo dumping.

My interest is in learning, both about photography and birds. I can see a place for an invitation-only forum because a low common denominator drives those with expertise out.

But I think we face a tricky social climate that's about the decline of community (relations based on like-mindedness) and an increase in society (relations based on exchange). There used to be camera clubs dotted around my city and they met say monthly, ran competitions and displayed their work. Like other community groups, those are dying off and they're hard to replicate online. There's two Aus efforts and one's close to dead and the other isn't renewing itself.

Bird shooting and bird-capable gear on the other hand are booming. The barriers to entry have lowered substantially. And while the ads promise plain sailing, as you know with the features and functions of modern prosumer cameras the reality is anything but. There's a huge thirst for recipes. The big makers don't have a clue about this. They release models with woeful manuals and user interfaces and the disappointed new owner has to stump up for a 500-page 3rd party manual (or ask questions on social media).

 

[Tim Mayo]

Sorry Ern, I just realised that I hadn't replied to you here!

Facebook is basically removing the option to approve members from public groups, which means a lot more spammers will be getting in. I manually reject hundreds of members each week, so I can't see how this will work well even though they will be providing some new tools to help filter posts. It's discussed a little here: https://www.facebook.com/community/whats-new/new-public-groups-experience/ - I'll probably just switch my groups to private which resolves the issue for the time being. Although I prefer public groups as they hold people more accountable for what they say and post.

I can understand that some people like to simply share photos and others like to get involved in deeper discussions whether thats about the art of photography or gear related discussions. I hope to tailor this site to cater for both audiences.

That's a shame about your local camera clubs, I guess covid isn't helping either. I would have thought in Victoria you would be spoilt for choice when it comes to clubs both online and offline.

Camera gear is certainly booming and now with so much more technology being squeezed into camera bodies we are seeing updates and new camera models coming out a lot more frequently. Of course as you mention this technology and the sheer number of different focus settings also makes them more difficult to master. I recently tried the new Canon R5 and was fairly impressed by the animal eye af hitting the eyes of my dog Frank running towards me, my Sony bodies can't do this unless he's practically walking. Although then I checked the shots and around 50% had actually missed the eye! So although it looks like it's doing a good job of tracking the eyes, the reality is a little different. Still, it's interesting to see this technology developing.

 

[Deleted Member 0001]

Trouble is with FB forums you get some people out just to cause mischief and go out of their way to upset other members, I have experienced this on two forums on FB, a lot of them are not policed enough by the moderators - yes I know they have a life. I much prefer these type of forums and will be leaving my FB ones.