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Reciprocum

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I used a Sony 85mm GM Prime and a Sigma 24-70 2.8 ART lens. I am still trying to figure out the best way to check number of frames per sec. I used the shoot information but that only goes to 1 sec intervals. That I can find anyway. Suggestions are welcome. I got accustom to hearing or seeing in the EVF the flicker. FF mode compressed RAW. You get used to it quickly.
I believe both the lenses you used cannot cope with A1’s 30fps, I think you may save some cull time if you shoot at 20fps with those lenses. If you are shooting in focus or balanced shutter priority mode then you probably are already shooting at 20fps or lower, in Wich case you can gain a bit of quality by not shooting compressed RAW.
My Sigma 85mm DG DN absolutely cannot cope with 30fps, only my 135mm GM does.
 

Spiderx1

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Sounds good. Thanks for the input. . You should be correct. I But it was still twice as fast as my RIV. I have a 200-600 Sony that should do it, and a 24-105 G. That also will but both of those require ISO in excess of 12000. So may not be worth the effort. Hard to say but I will find out soon. Off the Race Track for some outdoor shooting. Haven't been in the pits since my NASCAR days in the '70's, should be fun. Thanks for your help.
 
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AlphaWorld

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Tony
I used a Sony 85mm GM Prime and a Sigma 24-70 2.8 ART lens. I am still trying to figure out the best way to check number of frames per sec. I used the shoot information but that only goes to 1 sec intervals. That I can find anyway. Suggestions are welcome. I got accustom to hearing or seeing in the EVF the flicker. FF mode compressed RAW. You get used to it quickly.
I shot a burst of more than 30 uncompressed RAW images, and got 20 with exactly to the second, and the rest with the following second as timestamp.

Someone suggested the timestamps might be when the images are written to the card, but writing them took more than 2 seconds, and writing 100MB x 20 is 2GB, which is a lot more than the 700MB/s that the CFexpressA card can handle, so I'm fairly confident that the timestamps do reflect the time the shot was taken.

So if you shoot a burst of 30 or more images, how many do you get with the same timestamp?

(oh, and I was using the 135mm f/1.8 GM - that's definitely in the list of 30fps capable, but shooting uncompressed RAW takes it down to 20).
 

Spiderx1

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I was looking for something than had time stamps down to 1/10 of a sec. However this maybe a firmware limitation. So next best would be to shoot a burst of 2 secs and go thru the timestamps looking for the time to change and then start counting. There are a lot of parameters that have to be met to achieve 30fps.
 

Reciprocum

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OK, this will be a long, multi-part (because forum software only allows max 10pics per post) and controversial post.

My main goal of the test I am about to explain (pls refrain from commenting until I post the final part) was to unequivocally establish if the A1, in cRAW 30fps mode, is downgrading file depth to 12bit instead of the 14bit RAW files we get at all other fps settings and RAW types.
I always had this unanswered question in my mind because with my previous 7M3 I always refrained from using 10fps because I knew it would shoot 12bit deep at that speed, I maxed out 7M3 burst speed always at 8fps to guarantee 14bit deep RAW file output..

For that purpose I setup a 100% (95% because I used window daylight that varies during the test) controlled studio environment, camera on tripod, brand new 50 GM lens, full manual mode, manual focusing, 98% static subject (the 2% variation would be the LCD digits on the stop-watch I inserted on the scene). I double checked all the camera settings before starting the test and came back to triple/quadruple check them after I got the surprising/shocking results ...

RAW type: compressed (lossy)
Drive mode: Hi+
AF-S/AF-C shutter priority mode does not apply because I was in full manual mode and manual focused.
Shooting RAW only (no JPEGs/HEIFs) to the fastest card (irrelevant fro determining fps rate, only to how fast the buffer saturates/flushes).

So first I took a SINGLE picture to establish reference (14bit deep) cRAW file size for comparison with cRAW file sizes of 30fps burst images. If the file size turns out to be the same it means 14bit deep files RAW are being produced in both single frame and 30fps modes.

1st shot (single shot mode), file number is crucial to the final conclusions.
30fps-cRAW-A1_14954-4K.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100


Next (3 seconds after the first pic, just the time to rotate the shooting mode dial to Hi+) I made the first 30fps burst of wich I post only the first and last picture
30fps-cRAW-A1_14955-4K.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15124-4K.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100


First remark: the white balance colour temperature changed quite a lot from 1st pic (14954) to next 169 frames (14955-15124)

Then I uploaded the RAW files to my editing machine to compare file sizes:
Screenshot 2021-04-30.jpg


Same size! The 12bit deep boogie man is dead !


Now comes the interesting bit....: establishing stop-watch fps rates ground truth ...
I introduced a stopwatch (with 1/100s digits) to the scene.
30fps-cRAW-A1_15125-4K.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
 
Last edited:

Reciprocum

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So the next 4 entries will be the first 40 frames of the second 30fps 100+ long cRAW burst, with the stopwatch running off course.
(again, notice the file name, image number)
30fps-cRAW-A1_15126-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15127-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15128-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15129-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15130-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15131-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15132-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15133-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15134-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15135-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
 

Reciprocum

Well-known Member
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Jan 9, 2021
Name
Afonso Santos
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30fps-cRAW-A1_15136-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15137-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15138-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15139-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15140-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15141-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15142-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15143-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15144-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15145-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
 

Reciprocum

Well-known Member
Followers
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Jan 9, 2021
Name
Afonso Santos
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Portugal
30fps-cRAW-A1_15146-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15147-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15148-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15149-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15150-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15151-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15152-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15153-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15154-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15155-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
 

Reciprocum

Well-known Member
Followers
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Following
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114
87
Jan 9, 2021
Name
Afonso Santos
Country
Portugal
30fps-cRAW-A1_15156-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15157-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15158-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15159-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15160-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15161-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15162-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15163-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15164-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-A1_15165-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/2
  • 1/100 sec
  • ISO 100
 

Reciprocum

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Jan 9, 2021
Name
Afonso Santos
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Portugal
And now for the shocking (they were to me) conclusions:

1) Never saw less than 8/100s delta between consecutive frames => 12fps !!!
2) Never saw the same seconds counter value in more than 20 consecutive frames on the whole 140+ long burst
3) Several times we see FAKE/repeated consecutive frames !!!!!! (fillers between the real 12fps to reach/fake 20fps ?)

The e-shutter synthetic sound did sounded faster than the usual 20fps I hear when I shoot surf at Hi mode (uncompressed RAW, APS-C mode). But I now think the 30fps thing is faked/staged... maybe it is my user error, maybe it is some stopwatch LCD screen refresh artefact ? I will certainly repeat this with a mechanical stopwatch if I can get my hands on one.

The only explanation I can come up with (for not even attaining 30fps in Hi+ cRAW) is that even tough the focus is set to manual, since the AF-S/AF-C shutter priority is still set to "balanced", the algorithms still query the lens "Are you focused ?" just to get an immediate/fixed answer "yes". But I don't think it is up to the lens to know/decide if it is focused or not.
Have to repeat this test with priority set to "release", and then again with Hi uncompressed RAW to see if repeated frames still show up ...

=====================================================================
EDIT: I have repeated my tests, this time setting up AF-S/AF-C shutter priority to "release" and with better light (shutter speed increased from 1/100 of first test run to 1/1600 on this second test run) now and stopwatch laying flat on the ground It is even more clear the repeated frames, sometimes even 3 repeated consecutive frames. I will give Sony the benefit of the doubt and assume that it is my digital stop-watch that only refreshes its LCD screen at 12fps ... definitely a test to repeat with a mech stop-watch.

Oh, and now 2) no longer holds: I do consistently count 30 consecutive frames showing the same second number :), so the change to "release"was key to atain 30fps, having manual focus does not impact/benefit fps rates.

So the conclusion v2.0 is that I just repeated the same user-error that Tony Northrup did on his very first preliminary A1 review on YouTube when he also claimed the A1 does not reach 30fps in Hi+ mode.

A few frames of the second (true 30fps with "release" shutter priority) test run:
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05302-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05303-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05304-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05305-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05306-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05307-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05308-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05309-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05310-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
30fps-cRAW-v2-A1_05311-Web.jpg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 50mm F1.2 GM
  • 50.0 mm
  • ƒ/1.6
  • 1/1600 sec
  • ISO 100
 
Last edited:

Spiderx1

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Thanks for taking the time to evaluate this and give users some insight into the H+ mode!!!!!!
 

Reciprocum

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Afonso Santos
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Thanks for taking the time to evaluate this and give users some insight into the H+ mode!!!!!!
I have been very prejudice minded towards 30fps Hi+ mode because I (wrongly) assumed:
1) it would produce 12bit deep cRAW files
2) cRAW would be visibly worse than uRAW

and when I bought the A1 I was willing to accept 20fps as the max usable FPS (a 3x improvement over the 8fps of my previous 7M3).

After yesterday’s tests I know I will switch to 30fps on the most demanding action shots. My only complain is that I cannot setup the camera to be Hi+=30fps cRAW shutter priority: release, Hi=20fps uRAW shutter priority: balanced, M=10fps uRAW shutter priority: Focus, L=5fps uRAW. Just by turning the drive mode dial. Will have to setup some C button as a “turbo” mode to crank up Hi+ 20FPS uRAW balanced, to Hi+ 30fps cRAW release, with a single button press&hold, without turning any dial, digging in the menus, nor removing the eye from the EVF mid tracking.

Currently my “turbo” C button only overrides FPS to 20FPS (regardless of the drive mode dial position) and another “pose” C button overrides FPS to 1 and shutter to 1/640, none of them changes/overrides RAW type setting.
 
Last edited:
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Spiderx1

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Randy Siers
This is awesome information, thank you! I will be very interested in seeing your solution. I currently have 2 lenses ordered that are on Sony’s list capable of the 30fps, given the correct settings. One is on the FedEx truck lost in Atlanta, the other back ordered. So as of now I only have the 200-600 that is listed. I plan on using my iPhone stop watch to photo for frame count as it goes to 1/10 of a second.
 

Xeropaga81

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AugSom72?
Here a link to a little nerd talk about a comparison of the Canon R5 vs the Sony A1 from the perspective of two Swiss "birders". Unfortunately it's only available in German language - sorry for that.

Canon R5 vs. Sony A1
 

AlphaWorld

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Apr 8, 2021
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Tony
And now for the shocking (they were to me) conclusions:

1) Never saw less than 8/100s delta between consecutive frames => 12fps !!!
2) Never saw the same seconds counter value in more than 20 consecutive frames on the whole 140+ long burst
3) Several times we see FAKE/repeated consecutive frames !!!!!! (fillers between the real 12fps to reach/fake 20fps ?)

The e-shutter synthetic sound did sounded faster than the usual 20fps I hear when I shoot surf at Hi mode (uncompressed RAW, APS-C mode). But I now think the 30fps thing is faked/staged... maybe it is my user error, maybe it is some stopwatch LCD screen refresh artefact ? I will certainly repeat this with a mechanical stopwatch if I can get my hands on one.

The only explanation I can come up with (for not even attaining 30fps in Hi+ cRAW) is that even tough the focus is set to manual, since the AF-S/AF-C shutter priority is still set to "balanced", the algorithms still query the lens "Are you focused ?" just to get an immediate/fixed answer "yes". But I don't think it is up to the lens to know/decide if it is focused or not.
Have to repeat this test with priority set to "release", and then again with Hi uncompressed RAW to see if repeated frames still show up ...

=====================================================================
EDIT: I have repeated my tests, this time setting up AF-S/AF-C shutter priority to "release" and with better light (shutter speed increased from 1/100 of first test run to 1/1600 on this second test run) now and stopwatch laying flat on the ground It is even more clear the repeated frames, sometimes even 3 repeated consecutive frames. I will give Sony the benefit of the doubt and assume that it is my digital stop-watch that only refreshes its LCD screen at 12fps ... definitely a test to repeat with a mech stop-watch.

Oh, and now 2) no longer holds: I do consistently count 30 consecutive frames showing the same second number :), so the change to "release"was key to atain 30fps, having manual focus does not impact/benefit fps rates.

So the conclusion v2.0 is that I just repeated the same user-error that Tony Northrup did on his very first preliminary A1 review on YouTube when he also claimed the A1 does not reach 30fps in Hi+ mode.

A few frames of the second (true 30fps with "release" shutter priority) test run:
Here’s an idea - include something else in the scene that is moving smoothly - maybe a pendulum? That would confirm that it’s the stop watch and not fake frames because you’d see the pendulum in a different position even though the stop watch display is not changed.
 
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NightBreed

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Any update on those in the UK getting their A1's? I'm still waiting for mine. I was told middle of this month, which it is but no news so far!
 

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