Thoughts on long zoom choices

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I'm in the market for a new daypack for short hikes of about a half day +. While at the local shop yesterday we checked out some bags for fit, along with the 200-600. It was a struggle to find a backpack it would fit. This got me to thinking, which is never a good idea.

A long zoom is definitely going to happen. I've narrowed it down to 3 choices:

* The 200-600. 12-1/2" L X 4.8" D
* The Sigma 150-600. 10.5" L X 4.3" D
* The Sony 100-400 W/2 X TC. 8" L X 3.8" D

I had not considered the 100-400 before because there's typically IQ degradation with a TC. However, after looking through samples and reviews I'm thinking that it's not very significant. I've seen some jaw-dropping shots made with the combo at 800mm. Another plus is that when shooting M-4/3 at the drag strip the PL 50-200 is my go to, it covers virtually all of the FL's I need when shooting down the wall. In equivalence it's the same FL as the 100-400. The considerable difference in size between it and the 200-600 is enticing. The downside with this combo is the limited aperture with the TC, that being f/11 at the long end. With the A7 IV purported to have good AF down to f/22, that shouldn't be an issue in normal light.

Another option is the Sigma. The 150 wide end is 'close enough' to 100 that it wouldn't change much in that venue. I'd need to move down the wall a bit more but not much. Still, I have my favorite spots. With a savings of 2" in length over the Sony and not needing TC, it too is attractive.

I think the 100-400/TC would be the most versatile but the TC still scares me a bit. Does anyone use this combo? Which would you choose, and why?
 
I have both the 200-600mm and the 100-400mm. I bought the 200-600mm first, and after a while realized that while it is great for shooting off my deck or on a tripod that it would not be good for what I like to do in the nice weather: walk around my neighborhood and the lake. Enter the 100-400mm, which rapidly became my favorite lens. A few months later I bought the 1.4x TC for it and it stays on the lens all the time. I have not tried a 2x TC on it and doubt that I ever will. Too much light loss and often I am shooting in situations where the light changes rapidly -- say, one minute I'm shooting ducks out on the water and the next minute I'm shooting a squirrel scampering into the common grounds area where there are a lot of trees and subsequently a lot of shade.

Of the three lenses you're considering, for me the top choice would be the 100-400mm.
 
I have the FE 100-400 and "May" buy a TC. If I did it would be a 1.4. Less IQ loss and you save 1 stop of light over the 2.0. Mark Galer has a lot of shots on his Flickr site using the 100-400 with the 1.4. They are all "pin sharp". I'm in a wait and see mode. I have a memory setup where I can push one button and change to APS-C mode on my A7 III and my 400 becomes 600 because of the crop. My A7 IV will have the extra pixels to save the quality from the crop, if I would need it. I am too old and non-flexible to shoot Birds in Flight so I don't have to worry about that. Time will tell for me.

FWIW, I had a 100-400 Sigma and it was a fine lens but the AF on the Sony was a better match for the camera.
 
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200 600 is really untouchable for wildlife, it's super sharp, light, and has the most sublime handling. Until you hold one you won't get that, but the internal zoom, and the fact that it's a quarter turn of the zoom ring from 200 to 600 make it perfect. It's the sole reason I changed systems. I'm very sure the 100 400 is probably sharper overall, but add the TC and it's equal and you are still short at the far end. Truly a revolutionary lens.
 
I also recently had the problem of which long zoom to go for. I decided on the Vivitar 150-500, which I know is not on your shortlist. However, the images are capable of incredible cropping, see this example, and it is only 8" long and 390g lighter than the Sony 200-600, so I do not see much point in getting a longer FL.

 
So, a few side-thoughts from my pea-sized brain:

My main reason for wanting the long lens is air shows and drag racing. Both of those typically take place in good weather. With the A7 IV's ability to AF all the way to f/22, I wouldn't expect it to be an issue. The 100-400 would typically be used W/O the TC at the track.

I've read/watched quite a few 100-400 reviews. One by a private individual who had purchased both TCs. His initial testing with the 2X was not great, he thought the results were unacceptable and I have to agree based on the samples. He sent it back and ended up trying another one. The second one was substantially better, to the extent that if I had those results I'd be more than happy. It sounds like maybe all copies aren't created equal. One other review had incredible shots with the 2X. Is there degradation? A little, but it was only noticeable when pixel peeping. I'd be willing to bet an uncompressed RAW with the 2X wouldn't be much different than a SOOC jpeg in that case.

If I end up going thee 100-400 route I'll probably break down and buy from B&H instead of my local shop just because of stock. I don't know if the local even carries them, but if they do I doubt they have a enough stock to replace it if needed. I'll start with the 2X and if I can't come to terms with it I'll settle on the 1.4. I really haven't seen a bad shot (in capable hands) from that combination yet.

I am not interested in APSC mode. I'm not sure why everyone is so enamored of it. APS-C mode on a FF sensor is different than an APS-C sensor. It is simply digital zooming, which is cropping. It is exactly the same as cropping in post except you're doing it in-camera. In the case of the A7 IV I believe the crop mode will produce an image somewhere in the 15MP range. I would rather shoot in FF mode and crop it to what I need based on composition. If I really need to reach out and touch something I would use my Panasonic G9 and Leica 100-400 (200-800 equivalence) and end up with a 20MP image. Even if shooting a MP monster like the A1, I'd shoot in FF and crop to what was needed. At least I'd have the opportunity to evaluate composition.

I looked at a few others, but empirical evidence from past experience tells me I need the 600mm at least. I would absolutely consider a third-party XXX-500 if there were an opportunity to use a TC, alas, it seems there isn't. Most folks think Sony won't allow it, and they're probably correct.

The 200-600 is still well in the running though. One question I keep asking myself is: "Do I really intend on taking a lens like that on a hike?" I feel like I would tend to use it for more specific photos than just walking around and taking grab shots. More like setting up in a blind for wildlife.

If anyone can point to some specific sites with more samples of the 100-400 with TCs, I'd appreciate it. I'm sure there are more I haven't found.
 
200 600 is really untouchable for wildlife, it's super sharp, light, and has the most sublime handling. Until you hold one you won't get that, but the internal zoom, and the fact that it's a quarter turn of the zoom ring from 200 to 600 make it perfect. It's the sole reason I changed systems. I'm very sure the 100 400 is probably sharper overall, but add the TC and it's equal and you are still short at the far end. Truly a revolutionary lens.
It truly must be an amazing lens. I doubt few people would disagree. The fact that it is less money makes it that much more amazing!
 
There are two Sigma 150-600mm lenses: the Contemporary and the Sport.

I owned the Contemporary - it's significantly lighter than the Sport, and has fewer elements and is not built as tough. The Contemporary is the one that's lighter than the 200-600. The Sport is heavier than the 200-600.

The Sigma Contemporary is not a bad lens, but it extends a long way as you zoom out to 600mm (I don't know if the Sport does the same - I think it does). That may not bother you, but it bothered me sometimes. The 200-600 does not change length at all. The Sony 100-400mm also extends.
 
The Contemporary doesn't look to have an IQ that matches the other three so I discounted it off the bat.

I'm almost settled on the 200-600. Yes it's big, but the fact that it doesn't extend makes weather sealing more effective. In thinking about the Sigma I've read a few reviews that say the focusing is a bit lazy compared to the Sony lenses. It strikes me that since my main goal with the A7 IV is fast and accurate focusing, it makes no sense to go with anything other than the Sony.

I have read that the 200-600 gets along well with the 1.4, but I thought it wasn't compatible. I need to do some research.
 
Shot with the Sony A1, 200-600mm with 1.4x TC. I was on my condo unit deck shooting this guy out on our small lake. The 200-600mm is an excellent lens, and since you're going with Sony for the camera body anyway, why buy some third-party brand lens?

Hoodie On the Loose.jpeg
  • ILCE-1
  • FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS + 1.4X Teleconverter
  • 840.0 mm
  • ƒ/14
  • 1/3200 sec
  • ISO 6400
 
Very nice! I found a thread (maybe on Miranda?) with some 200-600 shots using both the 1.4 and 2. Pretty impressive.
 
Done deal!

My local shop sent an invitation for a Christmas sale this weekend with reps on hand from most major brands. The invitation said to respond to the email for pricing on specific items, so I asked about the 200-600. They sent me a price of $1613.30 and asked if I wanted them to hold one.

Hells yes!

Sure wish I could get the stinkin' camera! :ROFLMAO:
 
Done deal!

My local shop sent an invitation for a Christmas sale this weekend with reps on hand from most major brands. The invitation said to respond to the email for pricing on specific items, so I asked about the 200-600. They sent me a price of $1613.30 and asked if I wanted them to hold one.

Hells yes!

Sure wish I could get the stinkin' camera! :ROFLMAO:
That's an amazing price. Congratulations.
 
Yeah, MPB and KEH gets more than that used!
 
WOW, that is an amazing price! Sure it's not "grey market"?
 
I have no idea what the restrictions are for "Authorized Sony Dealers" but it has long appeared to me that Sony has strict price controls on it's dealers. If you see a camera or lens on sale at one dealer, you will see the same price at other dealers. For that reason I was very surprised to see a remarkable low price on the 200-600 lens. Originally, when I was getting ready to purchase my first Sony camera, an A7 II, overnight the price went up hundreds of dollars. I was stunned, so I immediately set out to buy the camera from another dealer before there was a price increase. I looked everywhere and all of the outlets raised their price as well, and by the same amount.
 
I have no idea what the restrictions are for "Authorized Sony Dealers" but it has long appeared to me that Sony has strict price controls on it's dealers. If you see a camera or lens on sale at one dealer, you will see the same price at other dealers. For that reason I was very surprised to see a remarkable low price on the 200-600 lens. Originally, when I was getting ready to purchase my first Sony camera, an A7 II, overnight the price went up hundreds of dollars. I was stunned, so I immediately set out to buy the camera from another dealer before there was a price increase. I looked everywhere and all of the outlets raised their price as well, and by the same amount.
I once got a Fender dealer in trouble (by accident) when I posted an incredible deal I got on a Telecaster and someone from Fender saw the post. The dealer actually called me to ream my butt, but once they realized there was no malice they calmed down. I had no idea that A) there was a limit to what they can sell for an B) that Fender people read the forum!

The example you posted is why my local shop can match Amazon. In this case it's a special sale of 15% off plus Sony's current $100 rebate. I doubt the store will want to jeopardize their 'Sony Small Store' status. The email sounds like I can only get this price while the Sony Rep is onsite.
 
Congratulations!!!

I bought the lens when I first got the a7riii back in September. It was a fantastic lens. Unfortunately I had to return it after 2 days, it was way too heavy for me to use handheld. I still regret it sometimes.
Yes, much bigger and heavier than I'm used to. But after thinking on it I came to the conclusion that this is an 'event' lens, a lens where I'm mostly staying put, like airshows and racing. If I were ever to put real effort into learning wildlife or BIF, I'd probably do it from a blind or some strtegic location. It's not a lens I'd ever want (or need) to take on a hike or even out walking around. A lot of people will get a good solid monopod for support while shooting.

Ok...off to the gym!
 
Sigma Sport 150-600 worked well for a couple of years. I had it on Nikon D500 (1.5X crop factor) hand held. We have some very specific problems that combination solved. When raptors are flying towards the camera along a cliff, that camera and lens is able to lock focus on the bird and not the cliff. Same problems and same solution for birds flying over, under and through reeds and vegetation. When the focus comes off the bird, it’s possible to grab the focus ring and manually help focus catch up with your eye still in the viewfinder. But what didn’t work well was maintaining focus lock while zooming. Other lenses from Canon and Sony are able to stick to focus lock while zooming. Please keep in mind there’s quite a number of settings in the camera body and also custom settings for the lens that may make focus stick better for a given situation. I didn’t mount the Sigma on a tripod but because the front of the lens extends when zooming, balance is an issue and of course more of an issue when shooting video. After a couple of years of constant use, the zoom wore out and I sent the lens in to a factory authorized service center and had the rack replaced. The lens never worked right again. I sent the lens back to the repair shop, had the camera serviced by Nikon, tweaked autofocus micro adjustment, turned image stabilization and other settings on and off but didn’t ever get the image quality the photos had when the lens was new. After too many tries and too many blown shots, sold the lens “for parts or not working” on eBay.

Fast forward to 2021: autofocus on the Sony cameras is amazing and the 200 - 600 is a bargain. Just wish it was f4. And wish I could twist the focus ring to manually correct autofocus. Plus wish I could turn “hunt when autofocus impossible” off. If we stray into the realm of speculation, it would be great if Sony creates their version of Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X and Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 180-400mm f/4E TC1.4X FL ED VR Lens.

America has laws prohibiting price fixing. Retailers can sell things for any price they choose, but if they advertise a price lower than MSRP the manufacturer will cut off their supply of new product. Something that sometimes works is: go into a brick and mortar store and tell them the best price you can get for that item and let them know they have to match that price if they want you to buy it from them. Sometimes they will throw in a card or battery for free so they don’t have to make out a receipt for less than MSRP.
 
I'm in the market for a new daypack for short hikes of about a half day +. While at the local shop yesterday we checked out some bags for fit, along with the 200-600. It was a struggle to find a backpack it would fit. This got me to thinking, which is never a good idea.

A long zoom is definitely going to happen. I've narrowed it down to 3 choices:

* The 200-600. 12-1/2" L X 4.8" D
* The Sigma 150-600. 10.5" L X 4.3" D
* The Sony 100-400 W/2 X TC. 8" L X 3.8" D

I had not considered the 100-400 before because there's typically IQ degradation with a TC. However, after looking through samples and reviews I'm thinking that it's not very significant. I've seen some jaw-dropping shots made with the combo at 800mm. Another plus is that when shooting M-4/3 at the drag strip the PL 50-200 is my go to, it covers virtually all of the FL's I need when shooting down the wall. In equivalence it's the same FL as the 100-400. The considerable difference in size between it and the 200-600 is enticing. The downside with this combo is the limited aperture with the TC, that being f/11 at the long end. With the A7 IV purported to have good AF down to f/22, that shouldn't be an issue in normal light.

Another option is the Sigma. The 150 wide end is 'close enough' to 100 that it wouldn't change much in that venue. I'd need to move down the wall a bit more but not much. Still, I have my favorite spots. With a savings of 2" in length over the Sony and not needing TC, it too is attractive.

I think the 100-400/TC would be the most versatile but the TC still scares me a bit. Does anyone use this combo? Which would you choose, and why?
I have a Sony 100-400mm FE GM OSS lens which is a really good and sharp lens. I bought a Sony + 1.4 tele-extension for it, but when shooting with it, the blurred background was distracting and unpleasant. I experimented with different exposures and apertures as well as the electronic shutter, but I wasn’t happy with the result so I sold the teleconverter out. This was just my own experience of it.
 
I'm in the market for a new daypack for short hikes of about a half day +. While at the local shop yesterday we checked out some bags for fit, along with the 200-600. It was a struggle to find a backpack it would fit. This got me to thinking, which is never a good idea.

A long zoom is definitely going to happen. I've narrowed it down to 3 choices:

* The 200-600. 12-1/2" L X 4.8" D
* The Sigma 150-600. 10.5" L X 4.3" D
* The Sony 100-400 W/2 X TC. 8" L X 3.8" D

I had not considered the 100-400 before because there's typically IQ degradation with a TC. However, after looking through samples and reviews I'm thinking that it's not very significant. I've seen some jaw-dropping shots made with the combo at 800mm. Another plus is that when shooting M-4/3 at the drag strip the PL 50-200 is my go to, it covers virtually all of the FL's I need when shooting down the wall. In equivalence it's the same FL as the 100-400. The considerable difference in size between it and the 200-600 is enticing. The downside with this combo is the limited aperture with the TC, that being f/11 at the long end. With the A7 IV purported to have good AF down to f/22, that shouldn't be an issue in normal light.

Another option is the Sigma. The 150 wide end is 'close enough' to 100 that it wouldn't change much in that venue. I'd need to move down the wall a bit more but not much. Still, I have my favorite spots. With a savings of 2" in length over the Sony and not needing TC, it too is attractive.

I think the 100-400/TC would be the most versatile but the TC still scares me a bit. Does anyone use this combo? Which would you choose, and why?
ok so 200-600 no brainer given the quality at the price point , but there are images on here from tamron 150-500 that look good to me
 
Back on again...I feel like a ping pong ball! I won't go into the details about what happened, but it was enough of a concern that the store owner called me. This has been a very odd experience. We ended up communicating via email. He apologized and offered the lens at the same price, less another sum of money for my trouble. I accepted the offer of the lens but declined the money insisting it isn't necessary. The one caveat I had was that since I had cancelled the A7 IV, and not knowing how long it will take to have them in stock for off-the-shelf purchases, I would have no use for the lens unless my place in the queue was restored. He did so and said one would be set aside for me on launch day, 12/23 (I'm betting they already have them in). He again insisted on the money and told me that amount had been deposited in my 'account' to use toward my purchase. I accepted reluctantly and promised to send as many people his way as possible.

Without a doubt the most incredible customer service I've received in decades, and maybe ever. These things should never be decided by the event itself, but the response and resolution.

If you ever get to Ann Arbor, by all means stop in at the Camera Mall.
 
Back on again...I feel like a ping pong ball! I won't go into the details about what happened, but it was enough of a concern that the store owner called me. This has been a very odd experience. We ended up communicating via email. He apologized and offered the lens at the same price, less another sum of money for my trouble. I accepted the offer of the lens but declined the money insisting it isn't necessary. The one caveat I had was that since I had cancelled the A7 IV, and not knowing how long it will take to have them in stock for off-the-shelf purchases, I would have no use for the lens unless my place in the queue was restored. He did so and said one would be set aside for me on launch day, 12/23 (I'm betting they already have them in). He again insisted on the money and told me that amount had been deposited in my 'account' to use toward my purchase. I accepted reluctantly and promised to send as many people his way as possible.

Without a doubt the most incredible customer service I've received in decades, and maybe ever. These things should never be decided by the event itself, but the response and resolution.

If you ever get to Ann Arbor, by all means stop in at the Camera Mall.

Having a good relationship with a camera dealer can make a huge difference. It doesn't always mean paying more, either - I have received excellent discounts from a bricks-and-mortar store.

Good luck with your purchase!
 
Congratulations, again! I think that you are probably correct in your assumption that they probably already have the camera. Just imagine a store the size of B&H, who probably have a shocking amount of Back Orders, start shipping a handful of cameras each day for how long? Joe Smith is going to hear that Ben Jones got his camera and he didn't! There could be a potential for a lot of pissed off customers. I think that they are probably handling it fairly, AS LONG AS I GET MINE FIRST! :LOL:
 

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