Ok so how good is your cameras focus and setup

[spudhead]

Ok there is much chat on here about how good focus is how well your camera is set up so Lets talk about it, I will go first, 2 shots below one raw file straight out of camera converted to jpeg and the other a big crop finished image, shot on a9 mk1 200-600 at around 600 metres maybe more, first raw file 15.6 mb and finished image 1.6 mb. so lets talk about what you are doing and what you expect from your setup

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/2500 sec
• ISO 500

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/2500 sec
• ISO 500

 

[iamdlewis]

All seems fine with the focus to me. I've done this enough now that I have different expectations for what is a good image depending on the day and the distance of the subject. Most subjects I won't bother if they are more than 100 meters away.
Action is: Shutter Speed priority, focus is tracking wide, think the tracking is 2 (or 4 whichever is the more sticky), shutter is on release, metering is center and the ISO range is 400 to 12500. If I could set the frame rate speed it would be Hi+ but since I can't it is always Hi+.

• ILCE-1
• Sony FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 GM OSS (SEL100400GM)
• 400.0 mm
• ƒ/5.6
• 1/4000 sec
• ISO 1600

Bird-in-tree or slow stuff is:
Manual, focus is small box, tracking is 3, shutter is on focus, metering is center, ISO range is 100-12500. Frame rate on this would be set to L but since I can't it is Hi+.

• ILCE-1
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/640 sec
• ISO 640

Also there is no way either of those images are from 600 meters away. Both the birds in this image are much larger than a Canada Goose and they are at most 200 meters away.

• ILCE-1
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/4000 sec
• ISO 1600

This is with a 400mm and the Eagle is about 300 meters away

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 GM OSS (SEL100400GM)
• 400.0 mm
• ƒ/5.6
• 1/800 sec
• ISO 160

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I feel with my setup I have and had that basically any miss is because of me. It's when I try to get away with something that usually it misses a bit. I'm also shocking at panning in close proximity, I'm beginning to get it right with larger birds but my dream is to get a little swallow or honeyeater taking mosquitoes from the water, although I'm still a LONG way from getting this.

What I'm noticing with my RV compared to the RIII is not an absolute night and day difference. Human detection admittedly is dramatically better but with birds and animals when I'm doing everything right on my end, I think the difference might be 10%. The RIII did do a great job I think and getting the new camera has really made me realise how amazing the third A7 generation cameras must have been when they first came out.

The RV is a clear improvement overall, but definitely not by a long shot. But hey, 10% more on a high performance machine is pretty substantial I guess. If a new Ferrari was 10% better than the old model it would be the greatest car ever made...

I will grab the camera a little later and put my AF settings up.

 

[-ST-]

Ok there is much chat on here about how good focus is how well your camera is set up so Lets talk about it, I will go first, 2 shots below one raw file straight out of camera converted to jpeg and the other a big crop finished image, shot on a9 mk1 200-600 at around 600 metres maybe more, first raw file 15.6 mb and finished image 1.6 mb. so lets talk about what you are doing and what you expect from your setup View attachment 36373View attachment 36374

I haven't given much thought to the distance of the subjects of my photos. I've gotten a sense of how large something has to be in the viewfinder to result in a usable outcome. This afternoon I spent some time in manual focus mode checking out the distances displayed for some familiar sights. From that exercise, I have a better idea of the distances and how they relate to what I see in the viewfinder.

Now that I have a sense of distance, I can report - I've learned not to bother with subjects more than 200-300 metres away - and they'd have to be large (e.g., eagles, herons, Canada geese). There will be exceptions, but in my brief experience (~ 40k exposures) with the A1 and 200-600, for anything smaller or farther away, I end up having to crop over 250 percent, and the results are not worth the effort. However, that could be my lack of editing skills.

One of my limitations is - I shoot mainly in the first couple of hours after sunrise. On the southwest coast of Canada, it's been mainly overcast and dreary in the mornings since I got the 200-600. For birds in flight, I usually shoot at 600 mm, F 6.3, 1/2000 second. The depth of field at 600 mm, F 6.3 is pretty shallow, and it can be difficult to get the whole subject in focus. With the recent lighting conditions, I haven't been able to reduce the aperture to increase the depth of field enough to make a difference. I end up with excessively high ISO values.

This afternoon, we had a sunny break, and I got this shot (view inside Capture One that resulted in a 250% crop).

The result - no edits or adjustments except for the crop

• ILCE-1
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/2000 sec
• ISO 800

I use the following settings from Mark Galer.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

The settings I've put in for wildlife photography. Obviously small changes come in depending on the situation but this is pretty much my base.



Focus mode: AF-C.

Focus area: Tracking, wide.

Iso auto, max 8000.

Priority in AF-C: AF.

AF tracking sensitivity: 3.

Aperture drive in AF: Focus priority.



Subject recognition detailed settings.

Bird.

Tracking shift range: 3.

Tracking persistence level: 4.

Recognition sensitivity: 5.



I always disable the electronic front curtain shutter as well.

View attachment 36386View attachment 36385

 

[AlphaWorld]

For the dragonfly, I'd be using Insect recognition.

The A7RV does make a difference to AF. For easy cases, it is at least as good as the previous version, but it's when the autofocus gets difficult that it shines.

I use mostly the same settings as Mark Galer recommended for his A1 setup, but I have added APS-C mode to the Fn menu. I also find the new Home menu useful, and I like using the Fn menu in the view finder is useful for switching drive mode and subject recognition.

 

[iamdlewis]

I'm also shocking at panning in close proximity, I'm beginning to get it right with larger birds but my dream is to get a little swallow or honeyeater taking mosquitoes from the water, although I'm still a LONG way from getting this.

This is a reason I moved from the A7Riv to the A1. You may be better at the tracking then you realize since action really isn't what the R line is designed for, even when you use the crop mode. I went from A9->A7Riv->A1 and my hit rate cratered with the A7Riv but it was obvious that it was the camera and not me since I had the bird near center of the frame and the settings were good for getting the image. I would find that I would have frame 1 being good but then it might not be till frame 7 or 8 that I would have another good image. Since I had moved from an A9 I knew Sony AF systems were capable of tracking and focusing subjects like swallows. So if you find that you are getting similar results with small birds and you really want to continue with going for that shot then it might be time to switch to an A9 or A1. I have defiantly taken more images of swallows (30k+) than any other bird and though I have a lot of fun/great shots of them I still don't have the one.

Obviously the frame rate of the A7R line and even A7 will make getting that shot difficult. I don't have all the files of this sequence but if I were to guess it was probably around 80-90 total images with this being somewhere in the middle. If we say that everything lines up and good focus for each line the A1 you obviously get the 3 images, the A9 you would get 2, the A7 would get 1 and the A7R you could get 1 of these or none of them.

• ILCE-1
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/4000 sec
• ISO 2500

• ILCE-1
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/4000 sec
• ISO 2500

• ILCE-1
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/4000 sec
• ISO 2500

 

[spudhead]

Good to see the chatter back and forth guys on this one, thanks for replies from all

 

[TerryL]

All seems fine with the focus to me. I've done this enough now that I have different expectations for what is a good image depending on the day and the distance of the subject. Most subjects I won't bother if they are more than 100 meters away.
Action is: Shutter Speed priority, focus is tracking wide, think the tracking is 2 (or 4 whichever is the more sticky), shutter is on release, metering is center and the ISO range is 400 to 12500. If I could set the frame rate speed it would be Hi+ but since I can't it is always Hi+.

View attachment 36376

Bird-in-tree or slow stuff is:
Manual, focus is small box, tracking is 3, shutter is on focus, metering is center, ISO range is 100-12500. Frame rate on this would be set to L but since I can't it is Hi+.
View attachment 36377

Also there is no way either of those images are from 600 meters away. Both the birds in this image are much larger than a Canada Goose and they are at most 200 meters away.View attachment 36378
This is with a 400mm and the Eagle is about 300 meters away
View attachment 36379

These are fantastic!

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

For the dragonfly, I'd be using Insect recognition.

Of course. Hence the reason I wrote that I'll do some adjustments but use this as a base.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

For the dragonfly, I'd be using Insect recognition.

The A7RV does make a difference to AF. For easy cases, it is at least as good as the previous version, but it's when the autofocus gets difficult that it shines.

I use mostly the same settings as Mark Galer recommended for his A1 setup, but I have added APS-C mode to the Fn menu. I also find the new Home menu useful, and I like using the Fn menu in the view finder is useful for switching drive mode and subject recognition.

Oh right. I have subject recognition toggle on/off on the AF on button, then subject target alternate at the AEL button.

I find this works like magic and it's good to be able to turn it off completely on the street sometimes very quickly.

I do find it amusing how reviewers and what not make out that this AF is so complex to set up. It's pretty bloody straight forward really, all someone has to do is take their time to go through it and sort it out. I honestly don't understand how anyone with half a brain would be bamboozled by it...

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

This is a reason I moved from the A7Riv to the A1. You may be better at the tracking then you realize since action really isn't what the R line is designed for, even when you use the crop mode. I went from A9->A7Riv->A1 and my hit rate cratered with the A7Riv but it was obvious that it was the camera and not me since I had the bird near center of the frame and the settings were good for getting the image. I would find that I would have frame 1 being good but then it might not be till frame 7 or 8 that I would have another good image. Since I had moved from an A9 I knew Sony AF systems were capable of tracking and focusing subjects like swallows. So if you find that you are getting similar results with small birds and you really want to continue with going for that shot then it might be time to switch to an A9 or A1. I have defiantly taken more images of swallows (30k+) than any other bird and though I have a lot of fun/great shots of them I still don't have the one.

Obviously the frame rate of the A7R line and even A7 will make getting that shot difficult. I don't have all the files of this sequence but if I were to guess it was probably around 80-90 total images with this being somewhere in the middle. If we say that everything lines up and good focus for each line the A1 you obviously get the 3 images, the A9 you would get 2, the A7 would get 1 and the A7R you could get 1 of these or none of them.

Lol well maybe I'll just never get a swallow hitting the water...

I had a think about what I needed overall and it resulted in that I'd rather the extra resolution than the speed. I don't take enough photos to warrant two camera bodies so the A7RV was the decision. I've only ever used the continuous drive in Hi mode on any camera, so I've never even shot an R at full speed. I'd hate to have thousands of images to go through.

 

[iamdlewis]

Lol well maybe I'll just never get a swallow hitting the water...

I had a think about what I needed overall and it resulted in that I'd rather the extra resolution than the speed. I don't take enough photos to warrant two camera bodies so the A7RV was the decision. I've only ever used the continuous drive in Hi mode on any camera, so I've never even shot an R at full speed. I'd hate to have thousands of images to go through.

I am not going to tell you not to try because you could get lucky but you could also have a lot of fun and decided that maybe the speed is something you want.
At least for me since I have so many shots of swallows I can be pretty swift in culling. Of course it still does take time and because the best time to photograph them is in the spring I end up culling them over months.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Oh right. I have subject recognition toggle on/off on the AF on button, then subject target alternate at the AEL button.

I find this works like magic and it's good to be able to turn it off completely on the street sometimes very quickly.

I do find it amusing how reviewers and what not make out that this AF is so complex to set up. It's pretty bloody straight forward really, all someone has to do is take their time to go through it and sort it out. I honestly don't understand how anyone with half a brain would be bamboozled by it...

Oh, the temptation to ask how much brain some reviewers might have (not, of course, our fine host, nor certain other excellent reviewers), but that is unfair. After all, some of them are very good at writing attention getting headlines and attracting clicks like flies to … (but I digress).

Interesting idea - hadn’t thought of a button to turn it off - I shall ponder that. I have no trouble switching which subject from the Fn menu, and it lets me jump from Single to Hi on the drive mode, too.

One customisation I am glad I made was to turn the Fn button into Rating when in Review mode - let’s me mark images that look good on the back of the camera - otherwise I forget I wanted to look closely at them :-( Nothing to do with focus, but I found it useful.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

Oh, the temptation to ask how much brain some reviewers might have (not, of course, our fine host, nor certain other excellent reviewers), but that is unfair. After all, some of them are very good at writing attention getting headlines and attracting clicks like flies to … (but I digress).

Interesting idea - hadn’t thought of a button to turn it off - I shall ponder that. I have no trouble switching which subject from the Fn menu, and it lets me jump from Single to Hi on the drive mode, too.

One customisation I am glad I made was to turn the Fn button into Rating when in Review mode - let’s me mark images that look good on the back of the camera - otherwise I forget I wanted to look closely at them :-( Nothing to do with focus, but I found it useful.

I think the rating thing is a fantastic idea for a lot of people. It would be a great way to get organised. I actually cull as I'm taking images so after a day out I might have 30 or 40 to take home, then once I get home I will go through those and decide which ones are worth sending to the computer. From there I will whack my profile onto each, then after hitting it with the profile and making a couple of tweaks I will generally know within about 30 seconds whether it's worth continuing with a proper edit or not.

I don't use the Fn menu. With what I have programmed to all the buttons, then having the My Menu for non urgent stuff I am pretty much fully stocked. My Fn menu basically just has the stuff my buttons are programmed with. My drive mode is on down select on the selector wheel.


Thanks for the playback mode button programming tip though, I didn't think of that. I've put the rating on the Fn button, who knows maybe I will use it.

 

[AlphaWorld]

I've discovered in the past, after downloading images, that the one I thought was perfect was flawed, and one of the others was better - it's made me very wary about culling images before I see them on a big screen. I think it's partly because I wear fairly strong glasses.

Means I'm usually downloading hundreds, sometimes thousands, of images, but I cull in Adobe Bridge, which is fairly quick.

I admire your ruthlessness - it probably saves you from looking at 20+ versions of essentially the same image!

 

[iamdlewis]

I've discovered in the past, after downloading images, that the one I thought was perfect was flawed, and one of the others was better - it's made me very wary about culling images before I see them on a big screen. I think it's partly because I wear fairly strong glasses.

Means I'm usually downloading hundreds, sometimes thousands, of images, but I cull in Adobe Bridge, which is fairly quick.

I admire your ruthlessness - it probably saves you from looking at 20+ versions of essentially the same image!

My in-field culling is only stuff that is obviously out of focus or the subject is looking or flying away or just not in a position I find interesting or something is blocking the subject. Or sometimes I take a shot of something far away to verify what it is.
Even with eyesight that people say "now you are just showing off" quite often the images in the EVF and screen are not the best to judge what is a keeper and what isn't.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I've discovered in the past, after downloading images, that the one I thought was perfect was flawed, and one of the others was better - it's made me very wary about culling images before I see them on a big screen. I think it's partly because I wear fairly strong glasses.

Means I'm usually downloading hundreds, sometimes thousands, of images, but I cull in Adobe Bridge, which is fairly quick.

I admire your ruthlessness - it probably saves you from looking at 20+ versions of essentially the same image!

I agree with you and Lewis here. There's no doubt that I'd be deleting images that would be the better option as depth of field looks completely different to me in a complete image once it is on the big screen. But 1. I'm obsessive compulsive so I'd rather lose a good image than have a cluttered memory card, and 2. I'll be taking that photo again sometime soon.

I do photos here and there for local businesses. In these shoots I do keep more photos but still don't take anywhere near as many takes as I probably should. I've admittedly gotten lucky a few times though...