Well, B&H and PayBoo can...

[Brownie]

Jeez. I opened a card to save some $ when I bought a lens. Savings was $50. I assumed that since we live in a world made up of gig economy and electronic transfers, I could pay the bill with my PayPal account. Nope. Connect to a bank account (not going to happen with their crappy pseudo bank) or send them a check. So, I mailed them a check which thankfully made it to them and has been applied. The account is paid off, and I'm closing it. I'd rather pay the sales tax.

 

[Landshark99]

The bank is not run by B&H and I have yet to have an issue, if and when I do I will close it. On the small stuff it matters little but on the larger items it adds up.

 

[Brownie]

The bank is not run by B&H and I have yet to have an issue, if and when I do I will close it. On the small stuff it matters little but on the larger items it adds up.

Comenity Bank exists only for credit cards, there is no physical bank and I don't think they have any regular banking business like checking, etc. They're just like Synchrony, who does Amazon and others. I was hacked there and closed the account, fortunately they took care of it.

We were hacked at the IRS several years ago for over $11,000. Took me 6 months to get it cleared up. If I'm not going to use the account, then I'm not going to leave it open.

 

[Landshark99]

understand, yes they are owned by Bread Financail, not a bank in the normal sense. I had a an identity theft years ago with a checking account as well as someone actually getting access to our checking account and printing checks by stealing mail out of the mail box. I just try to monitor stuff all the time before it's get bad.

 

[Gaz]

There was a complaint last night about a bank here in Australia that has decided that tellers should not be able to dispatch cash withdrawals. You’ve got to use the machine out front.

 

[iamdlewis]

I always find it interesting when people talk about fears with financial institutions. I have lots of schooling, training and experience in financial companies and finance and the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding out there is pretty high.

My favorite misinformation/misunderstanding is the difference between a credit card and a debit card. If you have never had a credit/debit card number stolen, you will, and just remember when you are fighting over the illegally charged amounts with a credit card you are fighting over the bank's money with a debit card you are fighting over your money, regulations state that disputed amounts cannot be held against you or have to be returned to you until the disputes are cleared.

One of the things that scares me is how much people do not understand financial transaction companies and how much trust they put in them. That is an industry that has little regulation when compared to the banking industry and it shows through the huge amount of scams that operate through it. If you fear linking a bank account to a credit card bank that has FDIC insurance you should be in terror of linking a bank account to Paypal.

 

[Gaz]

I always find it interesting when people talk about fears with financial institutions. I have lots of schooling, training and experience in financial companies and finance and the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding out there is pretty high.

My favorite misinformation/misunderstanding is the difference between a credit card and a debit card. If you have never had a credit/debit card number stolen, you will, and just remember when you are fighting over the illegally charged amounts with a credit card you are fighting over the bank's money with a debit card you are fighting over your money, regulations state that disputed amounts cannot be held against you or have to be returned to you until the disputes are cleared.

One of the things that scares me is how much people do not understand financial transaction companies and how much trust they put in them. That is an industry that has little regulation when compared to the banking industry and it shows through the huge amount of scams that operate through it. If you fear linking a bank account to a credit card bank that has FDIC insurance you should be in terror of linking a bank account to Paypal.

I know someone who replaces his credit cards annually to rid himself of automatic withdrawals and subscriptions he may no longer need. He is such a smart arse.

 

[jav_eee]

PayPal had almost 35k accounts compromised by a brute force attack in December of 2022. "Electronic money" is never 100% safe. Your mailed check could have been intercepted and used info used for nefarious reasons as well.

In the end, nothing is safe. This is something we all know and accept.

 

[liggy]

I had a great experience with the Syncrony Payboo.

Comenity on the other had actually has driven me to buy elsewhere. BH has lost thousands in business from me as a result.

 

[Brownie]

PayPal had almost 35k accounts compromised by a brute force attack in December of 2022. "Electronic money" is never 100% safe. Your mailed check could have been intercepted and used info used for nefarious reasons as well.

In the end, nothing is safe. This is something we all know and accept.

I am fully aware of the stolen check concern, hence my statement about it thankfully making it there. One way to reduce the risk is to mail directly from the post office.

the thing about my PayPal account is this: It's not connected to ANY bank accounts. The money is there from/for online transactions, mostly fun stuff. It would totally suck balls if someone stole it, but it'd still be easier to swallow than getting hacked and OWING money.

 

[iamdlewis]

PayPal had almost 35k accounts compromised by a brute force attack in December of 2022. "Electronic money" is never 100% safe. Your mailed check could have been intercepted and used info used for nefarious reasons as well.

In the end, nothing is safe. This is something we all know and accept.

You should see the number of fake Paypal request accounts that hit business accounts. It is so bad that there are default setting in some systems that block all Paypal requests or sends.

I am fully aware of the stolen check concern, hence my statement about it thankfully making it there. One way to reduce the risk is to mail directly from the post office.

the thing about my PayPal account is this: It's not connected to ANY bank accounts. The money is there from/for online transactions, mostly fun stuff. It would totally suck balls if someone stole it, but it'd still be easier to swallow than getting hacked and OWING money.

Though check fraud has shrunk, mostly do to the low use, if you fear this it is better to setup the bill pay feature through your bank. If the transaction is bank to bank the encryption is done on both ends. These types of transactions are probably the most secure since they are overseen by the Fed and they are done in payment runs so the bank is transferring from "their account" to the other banks account and just sending a list of which of that bank's accounts get what amount. Also if for some reason whoever/whatever is being paid does not have the electronic capabilities the bank will send a bank check which will be part of a positive pay run, meaning the check cannot be cashed for any amount other than what the bank has as the stated amount. That doesn't leave out all the other possible stuff that someone could do with a check but given the amount of work and understanding of what is required to work that type of fraud the risk is low.

If you still feel that is too risky some banks let you setup a kind of payment account, which is basically like a 2nd (or in some places up to 10) checking account used to pay a single vendor. What happens is that when you go to make a payment to the vendor the money is transferred from your checking account to this payment account and then the payment is made from that account. The only way to fund these accounts is through setting up a payment from the originating checking account, transfers cannot be originated from these accounts. So if the account is compromised the most that could be obtained is whatever current payment hasn't been completed.

 

[iamdlewis]

I know someone who replaces his credit cards annually to rid himself of automatic withdrawals and subscriptions he may no longer need. He is such a smart arse.

That doesn't necessarily kill the subscriptions. Depending on the card agreement you can still be responsible for these since it would be your responsibility to cancel the subscription. If you just replace the card number some banks may even just transfer these to your new number.

Honestly that is far more work than just looking at your statement and cancelling the subscriptions or auto withdrawals.

 

[Brownie]

You should see the number of fake Paypal request accounts that hit business accounts. It is so bad that there are default setting in some systems that block all Paypal requests or sends.


Though check fraud has shrunk, mostly do to the low use, if you fear this it is better to setup the bill pay feature through your bank. If the transaction is bank to bank the encryption is done on both ends. These types of transactions are probably the most secure since they are overseen by the Fed and they are done in payment runs so the bank is transferring from "their account" to the other banks account and just sending a list of which of that bank's accounts get what amount. Also if for some reason whoever/whatever is being paid does not have the electronic capabilities the bank will send a bank check which will be part of a positive pay run, meaning the check cannot be cashed for any amount other than what the bank has as the stated amount. That doesn't leave out all the other possible stuff that someone could do with a check but given the amount of work and understanding of what is required to work that type of fraud the risk is low.

If you still feel that is too risky some banks let you setup a kind of payment account, which is basically like a 2nd (or in some places up to 10) checking account used to pay a single vendor. What happens is that when you go to make a payment to the vendor the money is transferred from your checking account to this payment account and then the payment is made from that account. The only way to fund these accounts is through setting up a payment from the originating checking account, transfers cannot be originated from these accounts. So if the account is compromised the most that could be obtained is whatever current payment hasn't been completed.

After the IRS ordeal we moved our life savings, a pension account, and another few accounts to a credit union. I have refused to do any banking on line at this place, in person only. Paychecks are auto deposited to another bank, and bills are set up to pay out of there, electronically. There is a very small savings account there for quick access just in case. When it gets to a certain amount we manually withdraw the excess and deposit it to the credit union. If someone did get into those accounts the loss would be manageable. If I had to mail a large check, I'd send it certified. As an example, I still file and pay income taxes on paper.

The credit union has instructions on our account to not release ANY money unless it's in person and with ID. They have a rule that if you want more than $2500 cash, you must call ahead, so that helps. We also have watchdog accounts that report any activity.

Yes, I am aware that a dedicated thief can still get in no matter how many protections are in place. I'm hoping once they find the accounts linked to bills, they won't look further. If they get into the credit union it'd be a wholesale hack, and I'd be covered.

 

[iamdlewis]

If they get into the credit union it'd be a wholesale hack, and I'd be covered.

Credit Unions have to follow the same security requirements that banks do and also be insured at the same levels so you will be as good there as anywhere else. If there was a mass hack it would be unlikely that the CU/Bank would be able to dispute balances without first providing you the funds.

If that process you have makes you feel safer continue it. Just don't be the person that says they won't use a credit card online because they are afraid of someone stealing their card info while handing the card to a waiter that then walks away with the card (they will use a debit card, which is a whole other mind blowing thing).

 

[Brownie]

Credit Unions have to follow the same security requirements that banks do and also be insured at the same levels so you will be as good there as anywhere else. If there was a mass hack it would be unlikely that the CU/Bank would be able to dispute balances without first providing you the funds.

If that process you have makes you feel safer continue it. Just don't be the person that says they won't use a credit card online because they are afraid of someone stealing their card info while handing the card to a waiter that then walks away with the card (they will use a debit card, which is a whole other mind blowing thing).

I use credit cards on line all the time, just not going with any more of these cheesy second-rate 'banks' (for lack of a better term).