Help me choose a backup body

[Astacus]

Sadly, a cemra body. There's no backup to Rob v1!

My recent lens disaster (ongoing) highlighted an issue..as it happened the A1 seems to have survivied the fall/deceleration better than I could have hoped, and delivered 15K images during the holiday.

But, if it HAD been broken, I'd have been using a 12mpix A7S3 as my backup.
This has too few pixels, and given that many bird shots involve heavy cropping, means that I am now talking about backup body for future trips (Madagascar seems likely).

So, given my future main system is A1+600F4 (+/- 1.4 TC), but that I will be taking the 200-600 as well, what body would YOU get as a backup?

Some parameters:

• It will be prev used, probably from mpb, who have already bought my A7S3 and 200-600 or wex - they offer 6mo warranty
• It should have a decent/high megapixel count
• Decent AF is a must
• Reasonable low light performance is preferred.
• Some video capability, but I found that the A1 video was also pretty good, so I wonlt be botheriuung with a video-centric body like the A7S3.

Budget, reasonable. For example, I could run to a used A7RV but not a used A1.

Given my interests (mostly wildlife, esp bird photography), what body would you recommend in my shoes.

Thanks all
Rob

 

[iain clyne]

It depends on if you want another stacked sensor or not and what amount of mp you want. I do a lot of wildlife and use a A1 with a A9 as my second body.
If you want more pixels and aren't worried about stacked sensor a A7iv or A7r iv/v.

 

[Astacus]

Thanks, interesting angle..

 

[Astacus]

Minor up[date... MPB gt back to me and offered me MORE than they had proposed for my 'as new' kit.
Not a huge amount more, but kudos to them! It doesn't help my purchasing decision though.

 

[iamdlewis]

The A7Rv makes the most sense. Really it depends on how much you believe you will use the backup camera for other things.

Here is an A7Riv image at 8000 ISO post topaz. Same sensor but the V may have a little better performance. I use my A7Riv for landscape and studio stuff.

• ILCE-7RM4
• Sony FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 GM OSS (SEL100400GM)
• 400.0 mm
• ƒ/5.6
• 1/500 sec
• ISO 8000

 

[Astacus]

The A7Rv makes the most sense. Really it depends on how much you believe you will use the backup camera for other things.

Here is an A7Riv image at 8000 ISO post topaz. Same sensor but the V may have a little better performance. I use my A7Riv for landscape and studio stuff.
View attachment 57676

Love a red legged honeycreeper! I’m leaning towards the A7RV, I think

 

[Brownie]

If a high MP count is important and cost is an issue, then your only choices are the R IV and R V. If you can afford the R V, then not much of a debate.

You might check into an A7 IV. 33MP still allows a pretty decent crop and the cost is much lower. AF is a generation ahead of the R IV and a generation behind the R V.

Plenty of guys on here getting excellent results from the 24MP A9 and A7 III.

 

[AlphaWorld]

For it to be a practical backup, you have to carry it. Consider the weight.

There are two paths to consider:

• Choose a second body you would actually want to use - like an A7RV (or IV), put a lens on each, and shoot with whichever suits - this gives you more than just a backup body
• Choose a more compact second body that you wouldn’t use all the time, but would be easier to carry - like an A7CR or an A6700 - this path is cheaper, but offers less versatility

 

[Astacus]

The way we travel the b/u camera would be in the bag, usually in a vehicle. But, b/u lens in bag while walking with ‘big’ system would be fine. The difference is a couple of hundred g at most. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Unframed Dave]

I like lightweight for a second body, when travelling. It's not the obvious choice for wildlife, but I'm currently trugging an a7cr round and, I'm blown away by it.

 

[DavidN]

Minor up[date... MPB gt back to me and offered me MORE than they had proposed for my 'as new' kit.
Not a huge amount more, but kudos to them! It doesn't help my purchasing decision though.

Be a bit wary of MPB. I decided to upgrade to the A1 a couple of months ago and since I'd successfully used MPB before, I got a price from them for my A7iv which I accepted. I boxed it up and sent it off using their courier. A couple of days later, I got and email saying that the price they were offering was being reduced by £375 as they had found a permanent scratch on the sensor! I was very surprised as I had never seen any defects in the photos taken with the camera. I rang to query what they had found and a very helpful young lady said it was reported as a permanent scratch on the sensor which didn't show up on images - sounds strange to me. Anyway she said she'd investigate further and about two hours later I got an email saying their original offer was now valid again as, upon re inspection, the sensor was found to be clean. No explanation as to why the change.

 

[Brownie]

Be a bit wary of MPB. I decided to upgrade to the A1 a couple of months ago and since I'd successfully used MPB before, I got a price from them for my A7iv which I accepted. I boxed it up and sent it off using their courier. A couple of days later, I got and email saying that the price they were offering was being reduced by £375 as they had found a permanent scratch on the sensor! I was very surprised as I had never seen any defects in the photos taken with the camera. I rang to query what they had found and a very helpful young lady said it was reported as a permanent scratch on the sensor which didn't show up on images - sounds strange to me. Anyway she said she'd investigate further and about two hours later I got an email saying their original offer was now valid again as, upon re inspection, the sensor was found to be clean. No explanation as to why the change.

I can tell you why. They have a bunch of inexperienced people doing this. They lost a lot of staff during COVID. I bought a lens from them in 'like new' condition. It wasn't. I asked how anyone could possibly rank that lens 'like new', no response. To their credit they took it back and I just took a refund.

 

[Astacus]

There experiences are of course individual, as is mine.

I have quite a long trading history with them, from 2015 - traded a Nikon D810 for a D3S - a camera that really stimulated my interest and enthusaism..I still have pangs of nostalgia for the D3S.

My interpretation of wat I am reading here is of a company that values customers. I don't expect any service provider to be perfect, but I do like them to put things right. In these instances, the company does appear to have acted quickly and satisfactorily with a nice disposition. And of course, they will send back, or take back, anything that you ar enhappy with - the former at their own expense too.

That being said, this was my first experience of them actually upping their offer for my kit! I described it as 'as new' too. I do look after my stuff, keep original boxes and packaging etc.

And, BTW, I have now p-exed my sale for a used (as new) A7RV. I will report on condition when it arrives tomorrow

Rob

 

[Brownie]

There experiences are of course individual, as is mine.

I have quite a long trading history with them, from 2015 - traded a Nikon D810 for a D3S - a camera that really stimulated my interest and enthusaism..I still have pangs of nostalgia for the D3S.

My interpretation of wat I am reading here is of a company that values customers. I don't expect any service provider to be perfect, but I do like them to put things right. In these instances, the company does appear to have acted quickly and satisfactorily with a nice disposition. And of course, they will send back, or take back, anything that you ar enhappy with - the former at their own expense too.

That being said, this was my first experience of them actually upping their offer for my kit! I described it as 'as new' too. I do look after my stuff, keep original boxes and packaging etc.

And, BTW, I have now p-exed my sale for a used (as new) A7RV. I will report on condition when it arrives tomorrow

Rob

Agreed on all points. The idea of our posts wasn't to say don't do business, it was meant to encourage caution. I have also dealt with KEH, Camera Exchange, and Usedphotopro here in the US for years, having had both good and less than good experiences with all three. Each ultimately responded appropriately in all but one case, MPB.

I bought a Sony SLT 65 from them in LN condition. Used it a few times and decided to trade it back. I ranked it in exactly the same condition as they sold it to me since there was zero change in condition. They lowered it to 'good' condition upon inspection. No one would even give me the time of day on that one, no explanation, nothing. I told them to send it back. Them having to eat shipping both ways was very satisfying. I would rather have smashed it against a brick wall then sell it back to them under those circumstances. I always think twice now before entering into anything with MPB. If the item isn't EXACTLY as described, they can have it back. Having dealt with so many different used gear places I can tell you that KEH is the most conservative in their gear rankings. I once purchased a 75-300 from them in 'ugly' condition that looks and performs like new for $14. MPB has been relegated to last choice in all cases.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

my 2 cents...

Compact body A7C (I or II): great for keeping as a backup, but if you have to adjust to the ergonomics when your main camera body fails, you'll be frustrated. Skip it.

A7RV: looks a bit noisy at high ISO for a full frame sensor, A7RIV would probably be better and cheaper on the second-hand market.

A7IV: looks to be the best jack of all trades (photo and video) with great AF and its been out for a while, so you should get a decent price second-hand. This gets my vote.

 

[Astacus]

Agreed on all points. The idea of our posts wasn't to say don't do business, it was meant to encourage caution. I have also dealt with KEH, Camera Exchange, and Usedphotopro here in the US for years, having had both good and less than good experiences with all three. Each ultimately responded appropriately in all but one case, MPB.

I bought a Sony SLT 65 from them in LN condition. Used it a few times and decided to trade it back. I ranked it in exactly the same condition as they sold it to me since there was zero change in condition. They lowered it to 'good' condition upon inspection. No one would even give me the time of day on that one, no explanation, nothing. I told them to send it back. Them having to eat shipping both ways was very satisfying. I would rather have smashed it against a brick wall then sell it back to them under those circumstances. I always think twice now before entering into anything with MPB. If the item isn't EXACTLY as described, they can have it back. Having dealt with so many different used gear places I can tell you that KEH is the most conservative in their gear rankings. I once purchased a 75-300 from them in 'ugly' condition that looks and performs like new for $14. MPB has been relegated to last choice in all cases.

Maybe it is an ‘across the pond’ difference. They started over here, I think. I have tried ebay, but there is a degree of nervousness with high value items, and the fees are high. Good that we have a choice though.
Rob

 

[Brownie]

Maybe it is an ‘across the pond’ difference. They started over here, I think. I have tried ebay, but there is a degree of nervousness with high value items, and the fees are high. Good that we have a choice though.
Rob

I think that could be correct, it is two different groups.

Have you ever dealt with Panamoz? I bought my A1 from them earlier this year, saved me a LOT of money. They do grey market but offer a 3-year inhouse warranty that is not only longer but easier and more comprehensive than Sony's. I paid $5100 US for a camera that would've cost $6500 here.

 

[Astacus]

I think that could be correct, it is two different groups.

Have you ever dealt with Panamoz? I bought my A1 from them earlier this year, saved me a LOT of money. They do grey market but offer a 3-year inhouse warranty that is not only longer but easier and more comprehensive than Sony's. I paid $5100 US for a camera that would've cost $6500 here.

NO, didnt even know about them. Thanks for the heads up ( though I must stop buying gear!)

 

[Brownie]

NO, didnt even know about them. Thanks for the heads up ( though I must stop buying gear!)

It's in the UK, members @Uncle Kevriano and @spudhead recommended them to me.

Brand new A7R V:

Sony Alpha a7R V Mirrorless Camera (Body)

Why Buy From Panamoz.com?Free 3 Year UK/EU/US Local Warranty14 Day Money Back GuaranteePrices include taxes and dutiesAll inclusive prices with no hidden feesProducts are 100% brand new and in boxExpress shipping with insurance and trackingDelivery in 7-14 business days onlySecure payment with...

panamoz.com

 

[spudhead]

It's in the UK, members @Uncle Kevriano and @spudhead recommended them to me.

Brand new A7R V:

Sony Alpha a7R V Mirrorless Camera (Body)

Why Buy From Panamoz.com?Free 3 Year UK/EU/US Local Warranty14 Day Money Back GuaranteePrices include taxes and dutiesAll inclusive prices with no hidden feesProducts are 100% brand new and in boxExpress shipping with insurance and trackingDelivery in 7-14 business days onlySecure payment with...

panamoz.com

yep Panamoz excellent service a1 arrived faster than Uk shop would have got it to me

 

[Brownie]

Mine was delivered to the US in six days!

 

[Angus Cameron]

I've found Panamoz 1st class. I had a warranty issue with A1 (all sound failed on camera). Sent to Sony UK for repair estimate. £850.00 Panamoz transferred funds for the repair to me within 2 hours of sending repair cost to them.

 

[DavidN]

NO, didnt even know about them. Thanks for the heads up ( though I must stop buying gear!)

I bought my A1 from Cotswold Cameras a couple of months ago, also a “grey import” company, for £4029 and it also comes with a 3 yr warranty.

 

[TerryL]

The A7Rv makes the most sense. Really it depends on how much you believe you will use the backup camera for other things.

Here is an A7Riv image at 8000 ISO post topaz. Same sensor but the V may have a little better performance. I use my A7Riv for landscape and studio stuff.
View attachment 57676

Good gosh, that is beautiful.

 

[Astacus]

Dammit!
I should not have started reading about the A9III.. I used to love pre-capture on my Oly system.

Anyone with experience of 'just' 24 mpix bird photography with the A9III cf the A1

 

[iamdlewis]

Dammit!
I should not have started reading about the A9III.. I used to love pre-capture on my Oly system.

Anyone with experience of 'just' 24 mpix bird photography with the A9III cf the A1

24MP isn't enough. You can basically test with the A1 what it would be like by using the APS-C mode and cutting your focal length. So to match an A9 with 600mm use a focal length of 400mm with APS-C mode.

 

[Astacus]

We are spoiled aren’t we… here is my camera history.. not in date order. Maybe 24mpix will not be perfect for all occasions, but it is not awful.

If the calculation is correct, 400mm fl is quite a hit.. surely apsc is irrelevant?

Rob

 

[iamdlewis]

If the calculation is correct, 400mm fl is quite a hit.. surely apsc is irrelevant?

Just saying that an A1 in APS-C mode at 400mm would be the equivalent of an A9 at 600mm or at least close enough. I think the A1 in APS-C mode is like 22MP. It really wouldn't be fair to compare an image from one of your older cameras just because of all the sensor improvements in general but the difference between an A1 and A9iii isn't going to be that much if any.

I moved from an A9 to an A7Riv because the 24MP just wasn't enough for the majority of what I was shooting.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Dammit!
I should not have started reading about the A9III.. I used to love pre-capture on my Oly system.

Anyone with experience of 'just' 24 mpix bird photography with the A9III cf the A1

Yes.

I had trouble using a 24Mpixel A9 II for BiF. I replaced it with an A1 which I found easier to use, mainly because I didn't have to try as hard to fill the frame with the subject.

Now I have the A9 III, and the 24Mpixel isn't as much of a problem, which is not something I expected!

I think there are a couple of technical reasons:

• the A9 II had a rather strong AA filter; it seems the A9 III has no AA filter at all. So the image is sharper.
• the A9 III EVF is much more detailed (9Mdot vs 3.7Mdot) and seems to respond faster

I'm probably a bit better at shooting with 24Mpixel, too.

Oh, and the better AF means that whatever you are aiming at is more likely to be in sharp focus (and it can focus on subjects that are smaller in frame).

All up, I think 24Mpixel is more usable on the A9 III than it was on the A9 II.

 

[Astacus]

Update/decision:

I mulled this over, took advice here, and eventually plumbed for the A7RV. For reference, UK.

1. Bought one S/H from mpb (not cheap, low shutter count).. saga below, but I do think they were scammed on this camera. To their credit, full reimbursement, paid for collection and refunded my postage. A hiccup (stuff happens) but they did right by me, customer service was as good as ever, and they remain a 5* operation in my mind.

2. Looked at the price from grey importers. Good price. In house warranty and was sorely tempted.

3. However, also called my local camera store, who have served me exceptionally well for many years. They offered me a brand new A7RV for ~ the same price as the S/H one. Not as cheap as Panamoz, but the difference was not so unpalatable.

4. Decided to go with a genuine UK body, which will have an added 12 months warranty from Sony, happy in having supported my local camera store.

Arrived yesterday. Sealed, brand new. The learning curve begins. I didn't think it would be possible for the Sony menu system to become more arcane! When this storm passes over, I will take it for its first outine.

Thanks for the advice everyone.