How necessary is OSS?

[FowlersFreeTime]

I got into a minor disagreement with someone on the Facebook group when discussing the new Sigma 18-50 for the APSC. Lens announcement for those who aren't sure what I'm talking about: https://www.alphashooters.com/commu...es-18-50mm-f2-8-dc-dn-contemporary-lens.3100/
I said it is a brilliant lens because it is so compact and has a nice wide aperture. Many disparaged the lack of OSS, to which I replied that it was an acceptable compromise.

Disclaimer: For those of you who do not swim in those waters (good for you!), the prevailing culture on the FB group is that OSS is 100% necessary for video and stills, and yet strangely this snobbery doesn't detract from the popularity of the Sigma holy trinity of 16/30/56 mm lenses which do not have OSS.

So I started wondering about the topic of OSS. What is your take on lens stability? Specifically in the absence of IBIS, can you get the job done without either? Or would you say its not necessary until a certain focal length?

 

[Brownie]

Global Shutter is already in the pro market, they just need to squeeze us for every penny in the consumer market before it becomes the latest 'gotta have'.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Global Shutter is already in the pro market, they just need to squeeze us for every penny in the consumer market before it becomes the latest 'gotta have'.

I didn't know that. Which cameras have a global shutter already?

 

[Brownie]

I didn't know that. Which cameras have a global shutter already?

Dedicated pro video cameras. Think expensive, like tens of thousands. This is per my nephew. He works for a news channel in Detroit as an editor and part time cameraman and does some cine stuff on the side with some other industry people and friends. His group is waiting for the day global becomes more affordable. I'm sure that won't happen until we have economy of scale, but as soon as it's feasible the manufacturers will rush to get theirs out to the consumers. I don't think it's too widespread yet, he mentioned a specific manufacturer but no one recognizable to me.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Dedicated pro video cameras. Think expensive, like tens of thousands. This is per my nephew. He works for a news channel in Detroit as an editor and part time cameraman and does some cine stuff on the side with some other industry people and friends. His group is waiting for the day global becomes more affordable. I'm sure that won't happen until we have economy of scale, but as soon as it's feasible the manufacturers will rush to get theirs out to the consumers. I don't think it's too widespread yet, he mentioned a specific manufacturer but no one recognizable to me.

Interesting.

Speculation:

Video cameras don't have high requirements in terms shutter speed, though (30fps uses 1/60, and 60fps usually uses 1/120, for example). Maybe the current global shutter implementations have limitations on how fast the shutter speed can be?

Would you be willing to buy a stills camera that could only go to, say, 1/200? Given that we tend to expect 1/8000 (and I'm enjoying 1/32000 on the A1), I would not expect that to go down well.

 

[Brownie]

Interesting.

Speculation:

Video cameras don't have high requirements in terms shutter speed, though (30fps uses 1/60, and 60fps usually uses 1/120, for example). Maybe the current global shutter implementations have limitations on how fast the shutter speed can be?

Would you be willing to buy a stills camera that could only go to, say, 1/200? Given that we tend to expect 1/8000 (and I'm enjoying 1/32000 on the A1), I would not expect that to go down well.

I'm sure by the time the technology and cost trickles down to we poor unfortunates they'll have it sorted. The first few models will probably be rushed to production as per usual, and they'll probably have some limitations, but if a system isn't workable for the masses then it wouldn't make much sense.

 

[AlphaWorld]

I'm sure by the time the technology and cost trickles down to we poor unfortunates they'll have it sorted. The first few models will probably be rushed to production as per usual, and they'll probably have some limitations, but if a system isn't workable for the masses then it wouldn't make much sense.

Agreed. That is why I'm thinking we won't see a global shutter in the next round - I think they are still working out issues.

 

[Brownie]

I think they are still working out issues.

Yeah, money!

"We're the experts, we can do anything you like. Here's how much it'll cost!"

 

[Boojum]

Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

 

[Brownie]

Agreed. That is why I'm thinking we won't see a global shutter in the next round - I think they are still working out issues.

Interesting timing!

Curiosity: Leaked image of the new Hasselblad X2D with Sony medium format sensor – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

Curiosity: Leaked image of the new Hasselblad X2D with Sony medium format sensor​

The Chinese weibo account Xjrumo posted the image of the new Hasselblad X2D. What I wonder is if it uses the new Sony 126MB global shutter sensor that Sony announced last year. Would be stunning!

 

[AlphaWorld]

Interesting timing!

Curiosity: Leaked image of the new Hasselblad X2D with Sony medium format sensor – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

Curiosity: Leaked image of the new Hasselblad X2D with Sony medium format sensor​

I have difficulty in believing everything that comes from SAR, especially when they describe a "mini-medium format" size sensor as "large format" (the entry point for large format is generally considered to be 4x5", and full large format is more up around the 8x10" or larger). This sensor is 57mm diagonal, but real medium format is more like 57mm x 57mm.

The idea that it might appear in a Hasselblad is unsurprising - Hasselblad cameras are not expected to support high frame rates, and they used to have quite limited ISO ranges (I haven't looked into them in some years now). Plus a Hasselblad usually comes with a high price tag, so if this sensor is really expensive, it won't be a problem.

It will be interesting to see how this goes, but I'm still expecting another generation of Sony Alphas without global shutter.

On another site someone said they wouldn't buy another camera until they could get one with global shutter - that's an interesting way to save money ;-)

 

[Brownie]

I have difficulty in believing everything that comes from SAR, especially when they describe a "mini-medium format" size sensor as "large format" (the entry point for large format is generally considered to be 4x5", and full large format is more up around the 8x10" or larger). This sensor is 57mm diagonal, but real medium format is more like 57mm x 57mm.

The idea that it might appear in a Hasselblad is unsurprising - Hasselblad cameras are not expected to support high frame rates, and they used to have quite limited ISO ranges (I haven't looked into them in some years now). Plus a Hasselblad usually comes with a high price tag, so if this sensor is really expensive, it won't be a problem.

It will be interesting to see how this goes, but I'm still expecting another generation of Sony Alphas without global shutter.

On another site someone said they wouldn't buy another camera until they could get one with global shutter - that's an interesting way to save money ;-)

It was meant more as a coincidental reference to GS, following our conversation.

A quick search shows that Hasselblad MF sensors are 53 x 40 for a hypotenuse of 66, Pentax are 43 x 32 for 54. It would seem there isn't much of a standard for MF sensor sizes with that kind of range, and the 57mm for this rumored sensor falls right in the middle.

 

[AlphaWorld]

It was meant more as a coincidental reference to GS, following our conversation.

A quick search shows that Hasselblad MF sensors are 53 x 40 for a hypotenuse of 66, Pentax are 43 x 32 for 54. It would seem there isn't much of a standard for MF sensor sizes with that kind of range, and the 57mm for this rumored sensor falls right in the middle.

At least it shows that the idea is out there, and something is (possibly) happening. They quoted it as being the suze of the Fuji GFX100 sensor, I think (although that appears to be 44x33). You are right, the size of the mini-MF sensors varies quite a bit.

 

[pointreyes]

Speaking of MF and on the same day this gets posted on YT.

Medium Format versus Full Frame: Battle of the Formats

Medium Format versus Full Frame: Battle of the FormatsA discussion about the relative merits of the affordable medium format cameras currently available comp...

youtu.be

 

[AlphaWorld]

Speaking of MF and on the same day this gets posted on YT.

Medium Format versus Full Frame: Battle of the Formats

Medium Format versus Full Frame: Battle of the FormatsA discussion about the relative merits of the affordable medium format cameras currently available comp...

youtu.be

OK, so clearly what I need to do is talk about how unlikely it is that I'll ever be awarded a prize of millions of dollars for making clever remarks on a photo forum...

(sits back and waits...)

 

[Brownie]

OK, so clearly what I need to do is talk about how unlikely it is that I'll ever be awarded a prize of millions of dollars for making clever remarks on a photo forum...

(sits back and waits...)

So many thoughts, so little time...