Sony A7 IV The A7IV - does it have everything you expected?

[AlphaWorld]

I think there will be some strong opinions about what is “missing” from the A7IV.

We have heard from a lot of people over the past year about what must be included (often wildly different expectations).

Once the announcement is out, I am curious if you feel something vital is missing. If so, what?

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

It looks like its highly dependent on your frame of reference.
I'm an APSC user, so this thing is lightyears ahead of my frame of reference.
If you're coming from an A7III, it looks like everything is better.
If you're coming from an A7SIII or FX3 though, its nice that you still get 10bit and S-Cinetone, but it looks like the rolling shutter is worse and you're missing the ability to do uncropped 4K60P recording.

Also, as an APSC user, I wonder why they didn't bother to throw in "Product Review" mode from the ZV-E10? surely that's just a software update? Or is that an "amateur" feature?

 

[AlphaWorld]

I was thinking that they went to 33Mp to support 8k video (8k being 32Mp), until it was pointed out to me that 8k is 32Mp in 16:9 aspect ratio, and 33Mp in 3:2 aspect ratio isn't enough. As it is, the A7IV only supports 4k video, and the sensor readout isn't fast enough to avoid some rolling shutter, especially shooting full frame (better in Super35 crop).

Was interesting to see that they only went with one combo memory slot, leaving the other as pure SD. Keeping with convention of having some difference between the two slots - on the A7III it was one UHS II, one UHS I; at least this time both slots can handle fast SD cards.

And they chose to switch the movie button with one of the custom buttons - doubt it makes a lot of difference.

I think the biggest surprise to me was changing the exposure compensation dial. It's in the same place, and has the same click-on/click-off design, but now it's assignable in the menus - even the A1 doesn't have that!

Not surprising that they offer lossless compression of RAW. Once they put in the new CPU, that's essentially free.

Huge buffer! Up to 800 RAW+JPEG shots? That's enormous.

I suspect we'll hear complaints about not getting a stacked sensor, but that was never a realistic expectation.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

I like the new trend of having a dedicated movie button, although mostly because I hate where it is on the A6xxx cameras.
I didn't expect more than 4k at that pricepoint, but I didn't expect them to cripple it with crop-mode either.

Overall, I think it is a good value for the price they're asking.

 

[AlphaWorld]

I don't think it's "crippled".

I think the problem is that there was a strong push for more pixels. More pixels on a non-stacked sensor means that doing a full-sensor read takes a certain amount of time, and they simply cannot read it quickly enough to do full-sensor 4k60p. It does do full-sensor 4k30p, though, and it's oversampled from the full 7k, which is good. They have to go to crop mode for 4k60p because that's the only way to read it fast enough (for the crop they can read fewer pixels).

Would you prefer not to have 4k60p at all?

I wonder if the A7IV suffered by being the first Sony A7 released after the A1? The A1 arrived with a deluge of features (and a price to match), and maybe people built up unrealistic expectations for the A7IV based on that, despite the fact that the A1 is priced at more than double the A7IV.

 

[Brownie]

I don't think it's "crippled".

I think the problem is that there was a strong push for more pixels. More pixels on a non-stacked sensor means that doing a full-sensor read takes a certain amount of time, and they simply cannot read it quickly enough to do full-sensor 4k60p. It does do full-sensor 4k30p, though, and it's oversampled from the full 7k, which is good. They have to go to crop mode for 4k60p because that's the only way to read it fast enough (for the crop they can read fewer pixels).

Would you prefer not to have 4k60p at all?

I wonder if the A7IV suffered by being the first Sony A7 released after the A1? The A1 arrived with a deluge of features (and a price to match), and maybe people built up unrealistic expectations for the A7IV based on that, despite the fact that the A1 is priced at more than double the A7IV.

Hi, new user. I'll hit the intro forum at some point.

I don't know if people built up their expectations, just wanted some feature that Sony didn't include, or if the truth is Sony has saturated the market with too many cameras in this model lineup. It is, after all, their newest 'basic' camera, essentially the top of the line pro-sumer. Maybe that's not even accurate. Between the S, the R's, the III's, the II's...it's kind of boggling. Which 7 is the top of the line? The the R 2 and 3 both have more megapickles, so I'm not sure that was the driving factor. The S is better for video. The III is probably the best lower priced camera.

Sony situated each camera at the time of introduction to be the latest and greatest 7 or to fit a niche. That's fine, but them not removing the older models leaves one doing a TON or research if they're not familiar with the brand. Most companies will remove older models from the lineup as the new ones are introduced. I guess Sony did do that recently by taking the 7 out of the fray, but why keep the II? Yeah, they're trying to get as much out of their R&D investment as possible, but they're doing so to the detriment of the line, at least to my mind.

The IV wasn't expected to be an A1 equal or even an A9, but it did gain some features. The newest focusing algorhythm is there, dual SDII slots. The larger body from the S and thankfully the new menu were inherited from it's ancestors. These are features that are critical to me. Slower readout doesn't bother me, although that may surprise some once they know what I shoot. The 33MP sensor is almost too much AFAIC. Something between 24 and 30 would've been perfect.

As for video, honestly, they could remove all but the most basic 1080 and I'd be happy. I dislike having to pay $ for unwanted and unneeded video. If I had my druthers Sony would've saved a lot of new features for the SV or whatever they'll call it. I'm sure that's why this camera has 4K from oversampled 7K.

The single backlit sensor was important to maintain cost. They had to hit that price point. Canon, Nikon, Panasonic. Panny's soon to be announced GH6 is going to be a video monster and will be priced about the same. Even though video features don't matter to me, it's the way things are and I have to accept it, but only to a point.

I've been waiting for this camera to release. I was going to get a III until I heard this was coming and decided to wait to see the new specs, then decide. For me it's almost 100% about fast accurate action focusing. I don't mean kids running around the backyard action or even a basketball game, I mean jets and funny cars. I had hoped Sony would bring it's top drawer focusing to this model and they did. I was also in the hope they'd make it fully compatible with the LA-EA5 since I have a nice selection of Maxxum glass, and they have. I called in my deposit to the local shop immediately following the on-line reveal. I'm very early in line, although I don't know if the local shop is big enough to get in on the early shipment. I suspect places like B&H, Adorama, Abe's, and Ritz will get the majority of those. No matter, my season here in Michigan is behind me at this point and I'm shooting normal stuff, fall colors, grandkids, etc.

I can wait. No...honest...

 

[pointreyes]

Just found out that the A7iv has one feature that the A1 and A9ii have but the A7Siii does not - PDAF to f/22.

The features of the A7iv does have me anxious to see what will come in the A7Rv.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Hi, new user. I'll hit the intro forum at some point.

I don't know if people built up their expectations, just wanted some feature that Sony didn't include, or if the truth is Sony has saturated the market with too many cameras in this model lineup. It is, after all, their newest 'basic' camera, essentially the top of the line pro-sumer. Maybe that's not even accurate. Between the S, the R's, the III's, the II's...it's kind of boggling. Which 7 is the top of the line? The the R 2 and 3 both have more megapickles, so I'm not sure that was the driving factor. The S is better for video. The III is probably the best lower priced camera.

Sony situated each camera at the time of introduction to be the latest and greatest 7 or to fit a niche. That's fine, but them not removing the older models leaves one doing a TON or research if they're not familiar with the brand. Most companies will remove older models from the lineup as the new ones are introduced. I guess Sony did do that recently by taking the 7 out of the fray, but why keep the II? Yeah, they're trying to get as much out of their R&D investment as possible, but they're doing so to the detriment of the line, at least to my mind.

The IV wasn't expected to be an A1 equal or even an A9, but it did gain some features. The newest focusing algorhythm is there, dual SDII slots. The larger body from the S and thankfully the new menu were inherited from it's ancestors. These are features that are critical to me. Slower readout doesn't bother me, although that may surprise some once they know what I shoot. The 33MP sensor is almost too much AFAIC. Something between 24 and 30 would've been perfect.

As for video, honestly, they could remove all but the most basic 1080 and I'd be happy. I dislike having to pay $ for unwanted and unneeded video. If I had my druthers Sony would've saved a lot of new features for the SV or whatever they'll call it. I'm sure that's why this camera has 4K from oversampled 7K.

The single backlit sensor was important to maintain cost. They had to hit that price point. Canon, Nikon, Panasonic. Panny's soon to be announced GH6 is going to be a video monster and will be priced about the same. Even though video features don't matter to me, it's the way things are and I have to accept it, but only to a point.

I've been waiting for this camera to release. I was going to get a III until I heard this was coming and decided to wait to see the new specs, then decide. For me it's almost 100% about fast accurate action focusing. I don't mean kids running around the backyard action or even a basketball game, I mean jets and funny cars. I had hoped Sony would bring it's top drawer focusing to this model and they did. I was also in the hope they'd make it fully compatible with the LA-EA5 since I have a nice selection of Maxxum glass, and they have. I called in my deposit to the local shop immediately following the on-line reveal. I'm very early in line, although I don't know if the local shop is big enough to get in on the early shipment. I suspect places like B&H, Adorama, Abe's, and Ritz will get the majority of those. No matter, my season here in Michigan is behind me at this point and I'm shooting normal stuff, fall colors, grandkids, etc.

I can wait. No...honest...

I have been guilty of using "megapickles" for "megapixels" before, but I've not seen "algorhythm" for "algorithm" before - that's cute!

I think the A7IV has as much of the new AF as it can use, given that it doesn't have the super-fast sensor. Early reports are the AF is impressive. I hope you'll get everything you need to photograph your fast moving subjects!

It's funny - you'd think that B&H and the like would soak up all the early supply of a new camera, but it doesn't seem to work that way. It seems like Sony's (and other companies, too) representatives work to "spread the love". I live in a much smaller country, but we get our share of the early supply, too. Maybe you'll get your new camera earlier than you might be expecting - good luck!

 

[AlphaWorld]

Just found out that the A7iv has one feature that the A1 and A9ii have but the A7Siii does not - PDAF to f/22.

The features of the A7iv does have me anxious to see what will come in the A7Rv.

I remember one of the headline features of a 1D camera was AF all the way to f/8 (f/5.6 was the limit on most cameras back then).

 

[Brownie]

I have been guilty of using "megapickles" for "megapixels" before, but I've not seen "algorhythm" for "algorithm" before - that's cute!

I think the A7IV has as much of the new AF as it can use, given that it doesn't have the super-fast sensor. Early reports are the AF is impressive. I hope you'll get everything you need to photograph your fast moving subjects!

It's funny - you'd think that B&H and the like would soak up all the early supply of a new camera, but it doesn't seem to work that way. It seems like Sony's (and other companies, too) representatives work to "spread the love". I live in a much smaller country, but we get our share of the early supply, too. Maybe you'll get your new camera earlier than you might be expecting - good luck!

Not cute, misspelled. Cute would be Al Gore Rhythm...

I think I got as much of the A1 focusing as possible without spending $6.5k.

I can only hope they get a few, but then I have no idea where I am in line. I might be reservation #5 and they get 4 in!

 

[AlphaWorld]

Not cute, misspelled. Cute would be Al Gore Rhythm...

I think I got as much of the A1 focusing as possible without spending $6.5k.

I can only hope they get a few, but then I have no idea where I am in line. I might be reservation #5 and they get 4 in!

I know all about being in line for a new camera - I was well down the list for the A7RIV, and the wait was tedious and tiresome. I placed my order for the A1 on the day it was announced, and I was in slot #2 That was at a fairly small shop (awesome service, which is why I go there), but they got two from the very first shipment. Happy me!

Whenever you get it, you'll enjoy it!

 

[Jeff A]

I was thinking that they went to 33Mp to support 8k video (8k being 32Mp), until it was pointed out to me that 8k is 32Mp in 16:9 aspect ratio, and 33Mp in 3:2 aspect ratio isn't enough. As it is, the A7IV only supports 4k video, and the sensor readout isn't fast enough to avoid some rolling shutter, especially shooting full frame (better in Super35 crop).

Was interesting to see that they only went with one combo memory slot, leaving the other as pure SD. Keeping with convention of having some difference between the two slots - on the A7III it was one UHS II, one UHS I; at least this time both slots can handle fast SD cards.

And they chose to switch the movie button with one of the custom buttons - doubt it makes a lot of difference.

I think the biggest surprise to me was changing the exposure compensation dial. It's in the same place, and has the same click-on/click-off design, but now it's assignable in the menus - even the A1 doesn't have that!

Not surprising that they offer lossless compression of RAW. Once they put in the new CPU, that's essentially free.

Huge buffer! Up to 800 RAW+JPEG shots? That's enormous.

I suspect we'll hear complaints about not getting a stacked sensor, but that was never a realistic expectation.

As an A7III user who loves his camera, I was waiting expectantly for this release. After reviewing all of the details of the newest offering, I'm amazed at how many improvements there are compared to the A7III. Sony is going to sell a lot of these cameras.

 

[Reciprocum]

Disappointed that max shutter is still 1/8000s (not enough for 50mm f1.2 GM even with ISO50) and that 10fps only with JPEG/HEIF or lossy RAW. Upgrading nonetheless (sold my 7M3 yesterday) because 7M3 EVF was obnoxious, 33mps=can now use APS-C punch-in in both bodies (A1 & M4), low to the ground/pond portrait orientation shoots, can use same battery grip on A1 & M4, same ergonomics, same menus, same(ish) AF (M4 will not do 120fps AF recalculations as A1).

 

[AlphaWorld]

Disappointed that max shutter is still 1/8000s (not enough for 50mm f1.2 GM even with ISO50) and that 10fps only with JPEG/HEIF or lossy RAW. Upgrading nonetheless (sold my 7M3 yesterday) because 7M3 EVF was obnoxious, 33mps=can now use APS-C punch-in in both bodies (A1 & M4), low to the ground/pond portrait orientation shoots, can use same battery grip on A1 & M4, same ergonomics, same menus, same(ish) AF (M4 will not do 120fps AF recalculations as A1).

Well, no Sony has ever gone faster than 1/8000 on mechanical shutter (they go to 1/32000 on electronic shutter only, and only on the A9 and A1). Not sure there are many cameras which can go faster than 1/8000 on a mechanical shutter, are there?

I can understand being a bit disappointed that the highest speed with full RAW (rather than lossy) is 5fps, although I've owned a number of cameras that could not exceed 5ps at all - the Canon 1Ds III and 5Ds, for example.

 

[Brownie]

Well, no Sony has ever gone faster than 1/8000 on mechanical shutter (they go to 1/32000 on electronic shutter only, and only on the A9 and A1). Not sure there are many cameras which can go faster than 1/8000 on a mechanical shutter, are there?

I can understand being a bit disappointed that the highest speed with full RAW (rather than lossy) is 5fps, although I've owned a number of cameras that could not exceed 5ps at all - the Canon 1Ds III and 5Ds, for example.

The info I've seen says 6FPS with full RAW, but it's still early and I don't fully trust everything at this point. Do you have something different you can post?

I have never understood the need for so many frames in a burst. Even shooting cars coming off the line at the drag strip doesn't require it. My camera is capable of 20FPS mechanical and 60 electronic, but I set it up for medium speed, which is 7FPS and always have more than enough to choose from. The spec'd 6 doesn't bother me at all, nor for that matter 5 if that's what it turns out to be.

About the only time I could see needing more would be BIF, but only then maybe a swift or a swallow jinking and jiving all over the place and getting that one magic shot.

 

[Alan Clark]

There are lots of features that could be added which Olympus cameras already have. Focus stacking, Live composite mode, Live bulb/time mode, ND mode, Pro capture.

16 Unique Features That Your Camera Probably Doesn't Have (Unless You Shoot Olympus)

Known for combining functionality with aesthetics, Olympus is also synonymous with innovation. Their unique features, great design, and ergonomics result in an increasing flow of photographers, both young and old, from other brands to their stable. There are lots of articles on Fstoppers...

fstoppers.com

 

[Brownie]

There are lots of features that could be added which Olympus cameras already have. Focus stacking, Live composite mode, Live bulb/time mode, ND mode, Pro capture.

16 Unique Features That Your Camera Probably Doesn't Have (Unless You Shoot Olympus)

Known for combining functionality with aesthetics, Olympus is also synonymous with innovation. Their unique features, great design, and ergonomics result in an increasing flow of photographers, both young and old, from other brands to their stable. There are lots of articles on Fstoppers...

fstoppers.com

As does Panasonic. My G9 has built in HDR which shoots an 80MP image (static subjects only, of course). Focus stacking, post focus, and a host of the other features I never use. One of M-4/3's selling points has always been features.

I've often thought if someone were to hand me the digital version of a Pentax K-1000 with Sony's focusing I'd be in hog heaven. No deep menus, no scenes, no color profiles. I know some people use those extensively, I just don't use them other than to experiment. I spend about 95% of my time in M, once in a great while in P.

 

[Reciprocum]

Well, no Sony has ever gone faster than 1/8000 on mechanical shutter (they go to 1/32000 on electronic shutter only, and only on the A9 and A1). Not sure there are many cameras which can go faster than 1/8000 on a mechanical shutter, are there?

I can understand being a bit disappointed that the highest speed with full RAW (rather than lossy) is 5fps, although I've owned a number of cameras that could not exceed 5ps at all - the Canon 1Ds III and 5Ds, for example.

I didn’t say m-shutter. I just don’t want to be limited to use 50gm only on my A1 or forced to go with ND if I want it on the M4.

 

[AlphaWorld]

I didn’t say m-shutter. I just don’t want to be limited to use 50gm only on my A1 or forced to go with ND if I want it on the M4.

Sorry - misunderstood you.

It may seem like heresy, but you do have the option of stopping down in bright light That was what we had to do in the “dark ages” before the A9 and A1. I don’t think those super-high speeds are available on any of the non-stacked sensors. They’d probably show some really weird rolling shutter on normal sensors.

That said, I was up at 1/10000 and above on the weekend, photographing black kites in strong sunlight against a cloudless sky at f/1.8.

 

[geodeo]

I wish there was no crop in 4K 60p. If someone could kindly overlook my ignorance and explain why it needs to crop that would be appreciated.
I hope the top 4 get into more computational photography, as a casual user there are so many use cases where the cameras brain could skew the result in camera based on my desired outcome

Cheers to all by the way, just joined and waiting for my a7iv mid December, have the 35mm f1.8 and 20mm f1.8 lenses ready to go and am overjoyed in general with the reviews and abilities of the camera - sony just get rid of the crop please.