Ok so a Corfu Town that sparked a debate with a cannon r5 user

[spudhead]

So in October I was On a Cruise and was and was in Corfu town about to take a shot of a dark alley way with the a9 and the 100-400 , A guy from the ship had been following us around and he was a Cannon R5 user with a much more suited faster, shorter lens and wanted the same shot. So I said after you, so he composed is shot and lowered his camera and said its too dark no light and grabbed is phone and said in is half decent English , Leica lens much better and took his shot ok, so my turn I raise the camera and setup for the shot, This guy is saying no no camera no good lens no good anyway I said ok no problem. So 3 shots below not the best but done to show the Italian guy its still can be done, live view off, iso 12800 atuo, +2 exp shutter 800-1000 F14 for dof,

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 GM OSS (SEL100400GM)
• 100.0 mm
• ƒ/14
• 1/800 sec
• ISO 12800

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 GM OSS (SEL100400GM)
• 100.0 mm
• ƒ/14
• 1/800 sec
• ISO 12800

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 GM OSS (SEL100400GM)
• 400.0 mm
• ƒ/14
• 1/1000 sec
• ISO 12800

I think. So the point is why did he bring is camera if he could not work around the situation, It was not dark really just dark fore- ground and bright light at the far end

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

This is a classic case of someone buying what they consider is the best camera, based on their own research, and then not knowing how to use it properly.

 

[Brownie]

Several years ago, I was talking to a guy about this very thing. He was a pro photographer and had taken an Alaskan cruise for vacation. He was standing at the rail shooting glacier-scapes along with all of the other passengers when someone started complaining about their jpegs, why some were so bright and others were so dark. He started talking to the guy and realized the camera was set on Auto. Just as Kev said, the passenger had no idea how to use it. Spent thousands and thousands and never took the time to learn how to do more than turn it on and press the button.

He started showing the guy some basic adjustments and helped him set up his meter for better exposures in the bright snow and dark water. Others overheard and started asking questions. He said the next thing you know he's giving a basic photography class in one of the ship's gathering rooms every night for the rest of the journey.

Those of us who visit forums take operation for granted, or at least gaining the knowledge, asking questions when we get stumped, etc. Not knowing how to operate a camera is a foreign concept to us, but not to others.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

It is a foreign concept to us indeed, and maybe we seem harsh, but I think if you are spending the money you should at least try to learn before saying is rubbish. No modern camera is rubbish. Some may have things that are irritating or hindering, but nothing that can't be worked around.

 

[Brownie]

This was related to me a several years ago and it sounded like the trip was several years earlier than that. In fairness, the cameras from 10 years ago weren't as capable. I can see a modern camera performing fairly well in the same situation. I just don't understand not wanting to learn the intricacies.

Case in point, my sister bought a Canon kit years and years ago, still has no idea how to set a shutter speed. What makes this worse yet is her son is a videographer/editor for Detroit's most prominent news station, WDIV. Very weird.

 

[spudhead]

Several years ago, I was talking to a guy about this very thing. He was a pro photographer and had taken an Alaskan cruise for vacation. He was standing at the rail shooting glacier-scapes along with all of the other passengers when someone started complaining about their jpegs, why some were so bright and others were so dark. He started talking to the guy and realized the camera was set on Auto. Just as Kev said, the passenger had no idea how to use it. Spent thousands and thousands and never took the time to learn how to do more than turn it on and press the button.

He started showing the guy some basic adjustments and helped him set up his meter for better exposures in the bright snow and dark water. Others overheard and started asking questions. He said the next thing you know he's giving a basic photography class in one of the ship's gathering rooms every night for the rest of the journey.

Those of us who visit forums take operation for granted, or at least gaining the knowledge, asking questions when we get stumped, etc. Not knowing how to operate a camera is a foreign concept to us, but not to others.

Well Tim this guy did get an half decent shot on his phone and I guess that is half the issue, he spent a whole week watching me when he saw me and shaking his head, I began to think his canon and nice range of lenses knew something me and my Sony had missed

 

[Brownie]

Well Tim this guy did get an half decent shot on his phone and I guess that is half the issue, he spent a whole week watching me when he saw me and shaking his head, I began to think his canon and nice range of lenses knew something me and my Sony had missed

I think the rather large point here is that he couldn't get a shot with his multi-$k camera, but he was all set using computational photography! Ouch!

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I'm so excited to reply to this one that I don't know where to start! I'm going to have to sit down and write up my rant when I get to work, it feels even better when I'm getting paid for it..!

 

[luismanibarro]

Well, please allow me to state something:
When I started this thing called photography 38 years ago, I was pushed by my family to buy an expensive 6x7 camera in order to make our own shots for the postcards company that we owned. I had no idea about this at all. We spent a fortune in a Mamiya RZ67 set, and I had to try ten times in order to properly load one roll of 120 film. We just guessed that this was about money. And we did have it, but no skills, or anyone to teach us (me).
So, in short, this has been a long journey, learning things every single day. It's pretty normal to listen people talking the same stupid things I dared to say when I was no more than a cocky and ignorant expensive camera owner.
Please do not bother offering free photo lessons without being asked to. They are not yet in the mood to learn. They just need to waist the time of five cruises and 10000$ in gear, to realize they need help.
With much love and respect to all of them

 

[AlphaWorld]

We joke about high end cameras having green auto mode, but it's true. I used to think that the green auto mode was for when you were going to let someone else take a photo of you using your camera. Now I realise that the main purpose is so people who have a lot of money, and no interest in learning (because having a lot of money means you don't have to learn!), buy the "best" camera, they can still get reasonable shots. If they tried to use a mode which required settings, they might get a whole bunch of bad images, then they'd complain that the camera was no good, and probably demand their money back.

 

[spudhead]

We joke about high end cameras having green auto mode, but it's true. I used to think that the green auto mode was for when you were going to let someone else take a photo of you using your camera. Now I realise that the main purpose is so people who have a lot of money, and no interest in learning (because having a lot of money means you don't have to learn!), buy the "best" camera, they can still get reasonable shots. If they tried to use a mode which required settings, they might get a whole bunch of bad images, then they'd complain that the camera was no good, and probably demand their money back.

My issue was that the guy clearly had some sort of interest in photography but so easily reached for his phone to grab a shot, and was convinced the camera and lens were useless to him, I do not know much about cannon mirrorless but I thought the r5 and his lens collection was quite well rated and I guess I wrongly assumed he was versed in the use of it having bought into it.

 

[AlphaWorld]

My issue was that the guy clearly had some sort of interest in photography but so easily reached for his phone to grab a shot, and was convinced the camera and lens were useless to him, I do not know much about cannon mirrorless but I thought the r5 and his lens collection was quite well rated and I guess I wrongly assumed he was versed in the use of it having bought into it.

My reaction would have been more along the line of "well, there's a waste of a perfectly good Canon!"

It's not a reasonable reaction - he is perfectly entitled to purchase whatever camera he wants. But absolutely, if you buy a camera you do need to learn how to use it.

The camera in a phone comes with all sorts of assistance and aids, because the user is not expected to be any kind of expert. That means that there are things that a phone camera cannot do, because it "protects" you from "mistakes"; even when we deliberately want to make images which have impact because of those "mistakes" (for example, shooting a silhouette of a person to emphasise the lines of their body, instead of "properly" exposing their face).

Our standalone cameras have less "protection" (especially once we leave green auto mode!), which gives us more creative power, but with great power comes great responsibility (and a greater need to know what the heck you are doing!).

Humorously, by contrast from the subject of our discussion, I started with a comparatively entry level camera, and moved up the ranges because I was learning more. I enjoy using a camera like the A1, despite the fact that it lets me make worse mistakes and more terrible decisions, because it means the responsibility for those mistakes is all mine - I cannot blame the camera. If I wanted training wheels, I'd use a phone camera :-D

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I love this one and rant about it a lot when I'm out and about! Fairly often I'll see people with nice cameras literally walk up beside me setting up for sunset photos etc, and they lift the camera up, point it at the sun, take a photo and then walk off. And I bet these people truly do have no idea why their images never come out the way they want, camera not good enough probably...

Quite often too, I see birding/macro groups when I'm on my adventures and we have a quick browse at one another's photos for the day. Admittedly I have three people through this avenue who have bought images off me but on these exchanges they are wowed by mine, and I walk off looking at my missus with my eyes wide open insinuating how the hell do these people get enjoyment out of taking photos. I mean it's bloody ridiculous how awful most people are at it, I'd feel embarrassed even having their best shots on my memory card and forced to take a hard look in the mirror and figure out where my life is going. What's even scarier is many of these people do lots of courses and what not, photography tutors etc. My missus will say to these groups that I've been doing it for a year and I'm self taught, so maybe I should start doing the classes for them...

If someone is that bad at something, surely they'd have the self awareness and self respect to utilise their time into something that will be more fulfilling for who they are as a person, I would think... Good photography is a commitment to several different things, and most people have absolutely no understanding of even one of them.

I just truly don't understand how anyone can spend a lot of time and money on something to simply just be average at it. We're alive and have blood flowing through our veins, part of that should be to always strive to be better...

Rant over. Thank you for listening.

 

[Hank]

I wouldn't have offered to show him how to use his camera.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

It really does speak volumes about how oblivious people are to the physics and mechanics of their equipment. In reality, the latest phone at wide angle in great lighting would probably put up somewhat of a fight to an R5 with a quality prime on it. But the situation where the phone will have absolutely no hope would actually be in a dark alleyway.

Anyway, you can't help people who don't want to be helped...

What a mad bugger, getting about shaking his head at you Gaz. That's awesome!

 

[spudhead]

I love this one and rant about it a lot when I'm out and about! Fairly often I'll see people with nice cameras literally walk up beside me setting up for sunset photos etc, and they lift the camera up, point it at the sun, take a photo and then walk off. And I bet these people truly do have no idea why their images never come out the way they want, camera not good enough probably...

Quite often too, I see birding/macro groups when I'm on my adventures and we have a quick browse at one another's photos for the day. Admittedly I have three people through this avenue who have bought images off me but on these exchanges they are wowed by mine, and I walk off looking at my missus with my eyes wide open insinuating how the hell do these people get enjoyment out of taking photos. I mean it's bloody ridiculous how awful most people are at it, I'd feel embarrassed even having their best shots on my memory card and forced to take a hard look in the mirror and figure out where my life is going. What's even scarier is many of these people do lots of courses and what not, photography tutors etc. My missus will say to these groups that I've been doing it for a year and I'm self taught, so maybe I should start doing the classes for them...

If someone is that bad at something, surely they'd have the self awareness and self respect to utilise their time into something that will be more fulfilling for who they are as a person, I would think... Good photography is a commitment to several different things, and most people have absolutely no understanding of even one of them.

I just truly don't understand how anyone can spend a lot of time and money on something to simply just be average at it. We're alive and have blood flowing through our veins, part of that should be to always strive to be better...

Rant over. Thank you for listening. Clint I do like your rants, I am sure it will make you feel better it always makes me feel better when I have a rant

I wouldn't have offered to show him how to use his camera. You are right of course lesson learned

 

[Hank]

I wouldn't have offered to show him how to use his camera.

Ha, I just noticed my typo. I would have offered, although I am sure he would have refused.

 

[Brownie]

Ha, I just noticed my typo. I would have offered, although I am sure he would have refused.

I thought that was a little salty for you, Hank!

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

This is a classic case of someone buying what they consider is the best camera, based on their own research, and then not knowing how to use it properly.

I feel the sting of this statement as that was me in Japan 2019 with a new a6400 and too many people telling me to "only shoot in manual mode" when I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Hundreds of sub-par shots, nobody to blame but myself.

The guy in Gary's story would probably have been really surprised what his camera could have done in the hands of a pro, or at least someone with more experience.

 

[spudhead]

I feel the sting of this statement as that was me in Japan 2019 with a new a6400 and too many people telling me to "only shoot in manual mode" when I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Hundreds of sub-par shots, nobody to blame but myself.

The guy in Gary's story would probably have been really surprised what his camera could have done in the hands of a pro, or at least someone with more experience.

Hi Chris I have missed you on here recently, I guess you are busy these days with the new baby, hope to see some of your images soon, I liked the shots from Scotland you added on here earlier this year

 

[Brownie]

I feel the sting of this statement as that was me in Japan 2019 with a new a6400 and too many people telling me to "only shoot in manual mode" when I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Hundreds of sub-par shots, nobody to blame but myself.

The guy in Gary's story would probably have been really surprised what his camera could have done in the hands of a pro, or at least someone with more experience.

Hi Chris I have missed you on here recently, I guess you are busy these days with the new baby, hope to see some of your images soon, I liked the shots from Scotland you added on here earlier this year

Yeah, that^^^^^

Whereinthehellhaveyoubeen?

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Yeah, that^^^^^

Whereinthehellhaveyoubeen?

Hi Chris I have missed you on here recently, I guess you are busy these days with the new baby, hope to see some of your images soon, I liked the shots from Scotland you added on here earlier this year

Hah, sorry gents, not to de-rail the thread but being Daddy-DayCare this month (I'm off, but wife went back to work) has been exhausting. I'll post up some more soon enough.