Sony A7 V Sony A7M5 Compressed RAW files

[MalcolmD]

I have had my Sony A7M5 for more than 2 months now (great camera overall), and it appears that only Sony's Imaging Edge software can open and process the two varieties of Compressed RAW files.

Is that correct? Have I missed something?

Neither Adobe nor LibRAW can open the files.

If I'm correct, how can we put pressure on Sony to work with other key software providers to unlock these files - which (given the modest size of the buffer) are critical to getting the most out got the headline "30 frames per second" performance.

No other camera seems to have had to wait this long.

MalcolmD

 

[rcreamer]

I'm pretty sure Sony's latest firmware update for the A7R5 changed at least some of the RAW file formats that affected several 3rd party software. Maybe this happened for the A7V as well? Maybe check to see if your 3rd party software has any available updates.

 

[AlphaWorld]

I have had my Sony A7M5 for more than 2 months now (great camera overall), and it appears that only Sony's Imaging Edge software can open and process the two varieties of Compressed RAW files.

Is that correct? Have I missed something?

Neither Adobe nor LibRAW can open the files.

If I'm correct, how can we put pressure on Sony to work with other key software providers to unlock these files - which (given the modest size of the buffer) are critical to getting the most out got the headline "30 frames per second" performance.

No other camera seems to have had to wait this long.

MalcolmD

Nothing Sony can do to make third party software developers support Sony file formats.

Can you clarify what isn't supported? I'd have expected the lossy RAW format that is used in the fastest mode to be supported already, because it is used in all Sony bodies, so it's well understood. And the losses compressed support for full-size RAW files is well understood, too.

Is it the reduced resolution "RAW" files (the ones that aren't actually RAW)?

There was a time when we had to wait months for RAW support for every new camera. I think I was waiting for over 4 months for one particular camera, back before 2010. So the claim that "no other camera seems to have had to wait this long" is far from true, historically.

It is only the past few years that things have sped up a lot - I got RAW support before the preordered camera arrived for the A9 III and A1 II - that was delightful.

 

[Richard A]

Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom have been updated in the last day or so. Do they not support the new formats now? With my A7R5 I rarely if ever use the Lossless formats. I know DxO don't support them. I pretty much use Compressed Raw most of the time.

 

[MalcolmD]

Thanks to all who have replied.

Adobe updated Lightroom and ACR in the last 2 days, and the lossy compressed RAW files are still not supported. LibRAW (which I know is used by Topaz Photo) still doesn't open them.

Whilst the quality of the lossy compressed RAW files (pseudo-RAW I have heard then called) may not be as good as the losslessly compressed files, they do allow for much longer (three times longer) shooting bursts at 30fps. Look at Tim Mayo's memory card tests. That would be my reason for wanting to be able to use them.

It's as if Sony has invented a file format that only it has the key to unlock - and the controls available in Imaging Edge are very poor compared with Lightroom.

Isn't it in Sony's own interest to get all the varieties of files fully accessible?

MalcolmD

 

[AlphaWorld]

Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom have been updated in the last day or so. Do they not support the new formats now? With my A7R5 I rarely if ever use the Lossless formats. I know DxO don't support them. I pretty much use Compressed Raw most of the time.

I looked into the Sony Help Guide for the A7V, and now I think I understand the question.

The A7V gives a choice between:

• lossless compressed (probably the same as on other models - full resolution RAW format
• lossy compressed (unclear if this is that same as their previous lossy RAW format)
• "compressed HQ" - this is completely new

It doesn't go into detail as to whether you need to use the compressed HQ mode to get the expanded dynamic range made possible when shooting with mechanical shutter at low ISOs.

That Compressed HQ format is a new one from Sony - not surprising that it's taking the third party software developers a while to support it.

Interesting that they appear to have dropped support for uncompressed (at last) - it may be that they think people trust the lossless compression enough now, and they already have several format to support.

It took a while for third parties to support the lossless compressed format when it first arrived (The original A1 was the first to offer lossless compressed (full size) RAW files) - there was a period when the third parties supported uncompressed and the lossy compressed files only. And lossless compression was a comparatively straightforward addition (there are a number of good lossless compression formats, but the data being compressed is essentially the uncompressed RAW data).

In case someone asks: chances are the Sony is not distributing the spec of the Compressed HQ format because it's not final, and still subject to change. If they committed to a full spec right now for third parties, they could find themselves forced to support multiple versions. I think we'll have to wait until there is at least one other camera supporting this Compressed HQ mode.

Adding support for a new camera using existing formats is fairly straightforward. Adding a new format takes longer.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Thanks to all who have replied.

Adobe updated Lightroom and ACR in the last 2 days, and the lossy compressed RAW files are still not supported. LibRAW (which I know is used by Topaz Photo) still doesn't open them.

Whilst the quality of the lossy compressed RAW files (pseudo-RAW I have heard then called) may not be as good as the losslessly compressed files, they do allow for much longer (three times longer) shooting bursts at 30fps. Look at Tim Mayo's memory card tests. That would be my reason for wanting to be able to use them.

It's as if Sony has invented a file format that only it has the key to unlock - and the controls available in Imaging Edge are very poor compared with Lightroom.

Isn't it in Sony's own interest to get all the varieties of files fully accessible?

MalcolmD

I think you are not using the term "lossy compressed RAW" correctly.

Lossy compression is a compression which does not return exactly what the source data was. Sony's lossy compression is used in the files that they produce for the highest shooting rates (the A9 III is the only camera which supports lossless compression at top speed). Their lossy compression can reproduce the exact data in any block other than one where the minimum and maximum values differ by more than 512 - a hard edge between black and white will lose some accuracy. The lossy compressed files are the same resolution as the originals, just not completely accurate to the values around edges.

I think you are talking about reduced resolution files - the files which have been processed down to a lower resolution. In these files the camera has taken a file at 33Mpixl resolution and scaled it down to 14Mpixel or 8Mpixel. This is NOT lossy compression. This is scaling the image down. The resulting image is lossless compressed, so referring to them as "lossy compressed is simply wrong.. It's not a true RAW file - the image has been de-mosaiced before scaling - that's why you'll hear them called pseudo-RAW. These scaled/reduced-resolution files were introduced on the A1 (via firmware update) and A7IV - they are not exactly new. However, I suspect that they have extra complications on the A7V due to the expanded dynamic range.