All Models I am upgrading from A6700 to a FF body, any suggestions?

[Jeromy]

Thank you for accepting me. I need help deciding which camera body to buy: the A7C II, A7C R, or A7R V while keeping my A6700. I have some good Sony G APS-C lenses I would like to use in crop mode on the new FF body. Should I prefer the 61 MP sensor since it provides the same pixel density as in A6700 when used in crop mode? I don't plan to buy many lenses for the FF body, except perhaps the 70-200mm f/4. I already have a couple of FF lenses, too, which I used in A6700, the 35mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8. Do you have any suggestions? TIA.

 

[Unframed Dave]

I have the a7Cr. It's a bloody good camera, if you like the rangefinder type format. My only gripes are the evf quality and comparatively slow fps. I use it when I want discrete and portable.

Everything else, I get the a1 out.

I have no experience of the a7r5.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

I agree with Dave, the disadvantage of the compact bodies is lower resolution viewfinder and screen. That's not too limiting if you are in good light and autofocus is performing well, but for macro or anything where you want to manually focus, it can be a little frustrating on the a6700. So if that sounds like a familiar situation, go with a bigger body like the A7RV.

 

[iamdlewis]

What features are you looking for in moving to a FF body if you are not looking to get FF lenses? It sounds like you just want to change bodies for the sake of changing bodies.

 

[Jeromy]

What features are you looking for in moving to a FF body if you are not looking to get FF lenses? It sounds like you just want to change bodies for the sake of changing bodies.

I already have two FF lenses, Sony FE 35mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8, which I have used with the A6700 body, as explained in my question. Besides that, I'm considering getting a 70-200mm f/4.0, which makes a total of three FF lenses. For me, the reasons for getting an FF body are that 1) Sony doesn't make good prime aps-c lenses that match the 50-85mm focal lengths in the FF camera, and 2) I have more room to edit the image if it has more pixels.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

For me, the reasons for getting an FF body are that 1) Sony doesn't make good prime aps-c lenses that match the 50-85mm focal lengths in the FF camera

Sony has a good 35mm f1.8 for APSC, but third party lenses bring the value that you are missing.

These are all EXCELLENT APSC lenses:
Sigma 16mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 24mm)
Sigma 23mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 35mm)
Sigma 30mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 45mm)
Sigma 56mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 84mm)
Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 (FF equivalent 27-75mm)
Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 (FF equivalent 26-105mm)

 

[Rlf]

Thank you for accepting me. I need help deciding which camera body to buy: the A7C II, A7C R, or A7R V while keeping my A6700. I have some good Sony G APS-C lenses I would like to use in crop mode on the new FF body. Should I prefer the 61 MP sensor since it provides the same pixel density as in A6700 when used in crop mode? I don't plan to buy many lenses for the FF body, except perhaps the 70-200mm f/4. I already have a couple of FF lenses, too, which I used in A6700, the 35mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8. Do you have any suggestions? TIA.

I have an A6600 and A1 and recently bought an A7cr. I love it. 61 mp, full frame. I did some resolution tests. While the A7 c r is fantastic, the a6600 is pretty darn good and compares well except for shots needing the absolute finest of resolution such as human hair on a head, or bird feathers. When traveling or just casually going around and wanting a camera, I take the a6600. For really excellent quality, I will take the a7cr. I also use a1, which I use for extra special work with the new Sony 300 mm G Master lens and 2x extender. If the a7cr had been available 2 years ago I would have bought it instead of the a1. Half the price. I had the a7c but sold it on eBay as it wasn't nearly as good as what I wanted. I know it's all overkill but I love having the ability to choose. Right now visiting my son in Montreal, live on Long island, just grabbed the a6600 and went. It is so light especially with a light lens and great for travel and 90% of photography that I do.

 

[alexpler]

If you intend to keep the 6700, I think that it'd be wiser to get an A7R V. Difference will be more noticeable than with an A7CII or A7CR.

 

[Jeromy]

Sony has a good 35mm f1.8 for APSC, but third party lenses bring the value that you are missing.

These are all EXCELLENT APSC lenses:
Sigma 16mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 24mm)
Sigma 23mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 35mm)
Sigma 30mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 45mm)
Sigma 56mm f1.4 (FF equivalent 84mm)
Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 (FF equivalent 27-75mm)
Tamron 17-70mm f2.8 (FF equivalent 26-105mm)

Thanks. What I have now are the Sony APS-C lenses 10-20mm 4.0, 15mm 1.4, 16-55mm 2.8 and 70-350mm 4.5-6.3. Besides that, I have two FE lenses 35mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8 from Sony, which I also want to use on the FF body. I have no intention of acquiring more APS-C lenses, and I plan to use, for example, the 10-20mm and 70-350mm lenses also in crop mode on the FF body. How do you think this sounds?

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Thanks. What I have now are the Sony ASP-C lenses 10-20mm 4.0, 15mm 1.4, 16-55mm 2.8 and 70-350mm 4.5-6.3. Besides that, I have two FE lenses 35mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8 from Sony, which I also want to use on the FF body. I have no intention of acquiring more APS-C lenses, and I plan to use, for example, the 10-20mm and 70-350mm lenses also in crop mode on the FF body. How do you think this sounds?

I didn't realize you had so many APSC lenses already. I agree, don't bother to buy any more.

If you're going to buy a full frame camera in addition to keeping the APSC, my vote is to get one that will give you every advantage of using a full frame; which means A1 or A7RV for best resolution, ergonomics, and best display/EVF. Use crop mode only as a temporary measure until you have the FE lenses to give you the focal range you want. The only exception would be that 70-350, you could continue using that on a FF in crop mode for wildlife or bird photography since its light and has a great range.

 

[AlphaWorld]

I own both the A7RV and the A6700 - they are complementary. I would get the A7RV over the A7CR because if you want to go for small / lightweight you have the A6700.

The A7RV has the best EVF and the best rear screen that Sony offers today. It has dual slots (and the option of using CFexpress type A - you are unlikely to need that!). It is well balanced with longer lenses (which can be a bit of an issue with the A7CR). It has a full complement of ports, including full size HDMI.

An A1 is another option, but I'd be tempted to wait for the next model - the current one doesn't have the "AI" AF features that you have in the A6700, and you might miss them. It doesn't sound like you are in a hurry, and I'm hoping to see the A1 II announced early next year - it will be 4 years from the original A1 announcement in January.

 

[Jeromy]

I didn't realize you had so many APSC lenses already. I agree, don't bother to buy any more.

If you're going to buy a full frame camera in addition to keeping the APSC, my vote is to get one that will give you every advantage of using a full frame; which means A1 or A7RV for best resolution, ergonomics, and best display/EVF. Use crop mode only as a temporary measure until you have the FE lenses to give you the focal range you want. The only exception would be that 70-350, you could continue using that on a FF in crop mode for wildlife or bird photography since its light and has a great range.

I thought I'd manage first with the 35mm f/1.8 and 85mm f/1.8 FF lenses I already own. They are not G-series lenses, but I think they have been good on the A6700, so they are good enough for my use on the FF body as well. Later, I could get the Sony 70-200mm f/4 Macro lens, which I've been planning for a long time. I am now trying to avoid buying extra lenses as they are quite expensive considering how little use I will likely have for them. Thank you so much for your comment.

 

[Jeromy]

I own both the A7RV and the A6700 - they are complementary. I would get the A7RV over the A7CR because if you want to go for small / lightweight you have the A6700.

The A7RV has the best EVF and the best rear screen that Sony offers today. It has dual slots (and the option of using CFexpress type A - you are unlikely to need that!). It is well balanced with longer lenses (which can be a bit of an issue with the A7CR). It has a full complement of ports, including full size HDMI.

An A1 is another option, but I'd be tempted to wait for the next model - the current one doesn't have the "AI" AF features that you have in the A6700, and you might miss them. It doesn't sound like you are in a hurry, and I'm hoping to see the A1 II announced early next year - it will be 4 years from the original A1 announcement in January.

Thank you. You have been most helpful.

 

[Jeromy]

Thank you all for your invaluable comments.

 

[old_man_leica]

Dave has it. The A7CR shares a lot with the A7RV, except the EVF. The EVF in the A7RV is sublime. That in the A7CR is not. It’s OK. The A7RV is the better camera so if your budget permits, my recommendation is the A7RV, particularly if you are keeping the A6700 anyway.

 

[Paul stuart]

get the a7r5 best image quality on the market baring medium format ,half decent auto focus ,ergonomics and use 2nd best in sony e mount have to give the nod to the a9iii probably the best ergonomicly mirrorless to date ,caveat with a7r5 is slow fps and bad rolling shutter in video.but then it is what suits you and your needs if you travel and do street cityscape family photos but need a small compact set up with a small sling bag maybe the a7cr is better ,also cheaper which could afford you better glass .

 

[Jeromy]

Well, after a few steps, I finally ended up with the A7R M5 camera. Initially, I had the A7 M4, which I returned and exchanged for the A7R M5. I must say that the A7R M5 almost covers everything a photographer could need, except for quick sports photography or photographing flying birds. I also keep my A6700, which is a very handy travel camera and a great backup camera for the A7R M5. That said, the A6700 boasts an incredibly fast AI-based autofocus, even faster than the A7R M5, e.g. for photographing birds in flight, and it’s also a great hybrid camera for video shooting.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Well, after a few steps, I finally ended up with the A7R M5 camera. Initially, I had the A7 M4, which I returned and exchanged for the A7R M5. I must say that the A7R M5 almost covers everything a photographer could need, except for quick sports photography or photographing flying birds. I also keep my A6700, which is a very handy travel camera and a great backup camera for the A7R M5. That said, the A6700 boasts an incredibly fast AI-based autofocus, even faster than the A7R M5, e.g. for photographing birds in flight, and it’s also a great hybrid camera for video shooting.

The A7RV is like expanding the A6700 to full frame (the APS-C crop of the A7RV is the same 26Mp as the A6700 sensor), but the 60Mp sensor is the slowest in the Sony lineup (I use it exclusively with the mechanical shutter).

Using the A6700 when you want more speed is not a bad idea, but when you want more speed, there are some expensive options available Either the A1 or A1 II if 30fps is enough, but if you want extreme speed, the A9 III...

 

[Jeromy]

The A7RV is like expanding the A6700 to full frame (the APS-C crop of the A7RV is the same 26Mp as the A6700 sensor), but the 60Mp sensor is the slowest in the Sony lineup (I use it exclusively with the mechanical shutter).

Using the A6700 when you want more speed is not a bad idea, but when you want more speed, there are some expensive options available Either the A1 or A1 II if 30fps is enough, but if you want extreme speed, the A9 III...

Thank you for your comment. Yes, I believe that’s certainly true, even though I have limited knowledge about the A7R V. However, I’ve been considering that an APS-C sensor camera like the A6700 is an excellent choice for fast shooting, especially bird photography. This is because you often need the additional reach, which requires even heavily cropped full-frame images. It’s unfortunate that Sony doesn’t offer any excellent, fast telephoto lenses for APS-C cameras. I’ll reevaluate my decisions when the A7V is released, or something comparable becomes available from Sony. I plan to primarily use the A7R V for interior shots, portraits, and architecture and landscape shots where speed is not a priority.

I’m also curious about the A7R V’s video capabilities. What are your thoughts on its ability to shoot FF 4K at 60fps, considering the image quality given its relatively slow sensor?

 

[AlphaWorld]

Thank you for your comment. Yes, I believe that’s certainly true, even though I have limited knowledge about the A7R V. However, I’ve been considering that an APS-C sensor camera like the A6700 is an excellent choice for fast shooting, especially bird photography. This is because you often need the additional reach, which requires even heavily cropped full-frame images. It’s unfortunate that Sony doesn’t offer any excellent, fast telephoto lenses for APS-C cameras. I’ll reevaluate my decisions when the A7V is released, or something comparable becomes available from Sony. I plan to primarily use the A7R V for interior shots, portraits, and architecture and landscape shots where speed is not a priority.

I’m also curious about the A7R V’s video capabilities. What are your thoughts on its ability to shoot FF 4K at 60fps, considering the image quality given its relatively slow sensor?

I don't know Sony's plans, but I wonder if there's enough market for APS-C telephoto lenses. Sony doesn't emphasise APS-C, even though the A6700 is a great camera.

I don't shoot video at all, so I cannot comment on 4k. You might consider using the A6700 for video.

 

[iamdlewis]

However, I’ve been considering that an APS-C sensor camera like the A6700 is an excellent choice for fast shooting, especially bird photography. This is because you often need the additional reach, which requires even heavily cropped full-frame images. It’s unfortunate that Sony doesn’t offer any excellent, fast telephoto lenses for APS-C cameras.

The A6700 has basically the same sensor readout speeds as the A7iv with 25.8ms electronic & 3.2ms mechanical vs 26.3ms & 3.3ms. If you then look at the A7Rv it has 62ms & 3.3ms. So regardless of which you go with you need to use the mechanical shutter for bird photography for anything in flight.

The "extra reach" of an APS-C is only something when looking a sensors with the similar MP counts. The A6700 and A7Riv/v at any focal lengthen can be considered the same even though you get more with the A7Riv/v.

There are other things that need to be considered. The FF cameras tend to have better stabilization and dynamic range, but the A6700 has more FPS. The FF bodies have a more natural handling when tracking subjects. The APS-C bodies are lighter. Most importantly what are the types of photography you do and what are the lens that work for that.

 

[Richard A]

I have had my A7R5 for a bit over 18 months now and I have got quite a few good bird in flight pics with it so far. Stuff like that takes practice.

Also, I have taken a fair bit of video with it and I'm more than happy with the results. I'm mainly shooting at 4K 25fps but I have done some at 50fps.

 

[Jeromy]

The A6700 has basically the same sensor readout speeds as the A7iv with 25.8ms electronic & 3.2ms mechanical vs 26.3ms & 3.3ms. If you then look at the A7Rv it has 62ms & 3.3ms. So regardless of which you go with you need to use the mechanical shutter for bird photography for anything in flight.

The "extra reach" of an APS-C is only something when looking a sensors with the similar MP counts. The A6700 and A7Riv/v at any focal lengthen can be considered the same even though you get more with the A7Riv/v.

There are other things that need to be considered. The FF cameras tend to have better stabilization and dynamic range, but the A6700 has more FPS. The FF bodies have a more natural handling when tracking subjects. The APS-C bodies are lighter. Most importantly what are the types of photography you do and what are the lens that work for that.

Thank you for your comment. Despite the recent introduction of AI-based hardware autofocus technology, the A7RV encounters challenges in autofocusing rapidly moving subjects. In contrast, the A7IV, despite its older technology, demonstrated superior autofocus capabilities for moving subjects. This disparity likely arises from not only the slower read-out time but also from the A7RV’s higher pixel count, which necessitates a longer time for subject recognition, even if the sensor read-out time would be the same. The processor requires additional time for subject recognition due to the substantial number of pixels in the 61 Mpx sensor. However, this also leads to more accurate subject determination, albeit at a slower pace. While the A7IV utilizes older technology, rapid autofocusing was the primary factor influencing my decision to select it over the A7RV. However, I later changed my preference to the A7RV, partially due to my existing A6700 camera, which I decided to keep.

Regarding bird photography and other subjects that require long telephoto lenses, APS-C sensor cameras and lenses with the same focal length as full-frame lenses can be designed smaller and lighter. When capturing flying birds with a full-frame body, it is common to crop the image and utilize only the central portion where the bird is located, rendering the larger sensor size less advantageous.

Just my own thinking.

 

[Jeromy]

I have had my A7R5 for a bit over 18 months now and I have got quite a few good bird in flight pics with it so far. Stuff like that takes practice.

Also, I have taken a fair bit of video with it and I'm more than happy with the results. I'm mainly shooting at 4K 25fps but I have done some at 50fps.

Thanks.

 

[iamdlewis]

Regarding bird photography and other subjects that require long telephoto lenses, APS-C sensor cameras and lenses with the same focal length as full-frame lenses can be designed smaller and lighter. When capturing flying birds with a full-frame body, it is common to crop the image and utilize only the central portion where the bird is located, rendering the larger sensor size less advantageous.

Yes if someone made long APS-C lenses they would be smaller and lighter, like the m43 are but nobody makes long APS-C lenses and it doesn't seems as though they will be made anytime soon.
A6700 is a 24MP sensor, the A7Rv is 61MP and the A1 is 50MP. At 600mm the A6700 would appear as if it were a 900mm with 24MP but the A7Rv could be cropped to match that same field of view and have a 26MP image and the A1 to a 20MP image. Beyond that range you just start hitting too much air and counts or reach don't make much of a difference. The "extra reach" seems like it is a plus but it is also a negative depending on what you are photographing. If you like to photograph only large birds in flight then sure all that "extra space" you have with the FF cameras seems like a waste but if you like to photograph swifts or swallows you will quickly find that a 600mm field of view is superior to a 900mm field of view.

Despite the recent introduction of AI-based hardware autofocus technology, the A7RV encounters challenges in autofocusing rapidly moving subjects. In contrast, the A7IV, despite its older technology, demonstrated superior autofocus capabilities for moving subjects. This disparity likely arises from not only the slower read-out time but also from the A7RV’s higher pixel count, which necessitates a longer time for subject recognition, even if the sensor read-out time would be the same. The processor requires additional time for subject recognition due to the substantial number of pixels in the 61 Mpx sensor. However, this also leads to more accurate subject determination, albeit at a slower pace. While the A7IV utilizes older technology, rapid autofocusing was the primary factor influencing my decision to select it over the A7RV.

Relative to each other there is some difference but if you are serious about birds in flight the A6700, A7Rv and A7iv are not what you should be considering. The difference in AF speeds between the A6xxx, A7 and the A9/1 is kind of like the difference between HY and GT3, sure GT3 does great and you can get a great result here and there but it is a different world than what happens in the HY.

I have had my A7R5 for a bit over 18 months now and I have got quite a few good bird in flight pics with it so far. Stuff like that takes practice.

You have great tracking skills and if you enjoy BiF you really should look to see if you can pickup a used A1.