AEL w/shutter on A9ii

[lodbrok]

I was watching Mark Smith's setup for Sony A7riv and he set this AEL w/shutter to auto.. I use back-button focusing and when I many times half-press the shutter will I then also block the contious focus? Doesn't AEL stand for Auto Exposure lock? And especialy in a burst of a B.I.F. will I then lock the focus when I hold down the shutter?
And question nr.2 : He also have the Phase Detect Area set to off? What is that?

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Phase detect relates to phase detection points alongside contrast detection points on the cameras sensor. Phase detection is utilised to improve focus by the image captured by the phase detect points being split by the cameras prism and the resulting 2 images being compared for phase alignment and adjustment of focus if out of phase. Phase detection is specifically suited to fast action shooting.

The issue is contrast detection is more accurate for low contrast images or in low light situations whilst phase detection auto is less accurate in these situations. Mark Smith shoots flying images predominantly many which may have low Phase detect relates to phase detection points alongside contrast detection points on the cameras sensor. Phase detection is utilised to improve focus by the image captured by the phase detect points being split by the cameras prism and the resulting 2 images being compared for phase alignment and adjustment of focus if out of phase. Phase detection is specifically suited to fast action shooting.

The issue is contrast detection is more accurate for low contrast images or in low light situations whilst phase detection auto is less accurate in these situations. Mark Smith shoots flying images predominantly many which may have low contrast/ and it may be this is the reason he switches phase detection off ..

On the matter of back button focus in setting this up you switch off the shutterbutton half depress focus so it becomes non functional other than to operate the shutter. .......without knowing Mark Smiths overall settings it is difficult to comment on his AEL focus settings

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Please ignore my second paragraph as it seems to be garbled....it should say Mark Smiths form of shooting is on low contrast and/or low light situations and may be why he switches PDAF off....

 

[Brownie]

Sony's hybrid system works by first using phase detect (PD) to get you close, then contrast detect (CD) to finish the job. CD is more accurate than PD, while PD is faster. Thus, the hybrid system. I'm not sure why someone would turn off PD, I've never done so and can't imagine a set of circumstances under which I would. Perhaps someone here who does can explain. I don't think PD is available with older A-Mount lenses.

Here's an excellent explanation of how Sony's Hybrid AF works. If you just want to see that part, start around 9:30. Most of it is over by 11:40.

 

[lodbrok]

Please ignore my second paragraph as it seems to be garbled....it should say Mark Smiths form of shooting is on low contrast and/or low light situations and may be why he switches PDAF off....

I do also like to shoot BIF and many times the cormorant coming in high speed when passes me. And seek situations like having the low sun behind me at 6 a clock and the bird at 12. Maybee turning off phase-detection to test this out. With and without.
Mark Smith had AEL w/shutter set to auto.. I think I will have that set to of also.
Had a bad shoot-out on the shore in rather dim light do.. came home with only non-keepers. First time after i replaced my old A7iii with the A9ii. And then going threw my settings and alter some here and there..

Here's a shot from the A7iii with the 200-600 +1,4tc 3200sek. and the second one with the A9ii on the 200-600m no tc. 1600sek.

Not so good light with last one do but anyway it seems so mushy and out of focus.. think I had stab. mode 2 on the last one.

Have been raining for tree weeks here on the westcoast of Norway now.. but hopefully soon I will test out this on the same trip.

 

[lodbrok]

Sony's hybrid system works by first using phase detect (PD) to get you close, then contrast detect (CD) to finish the job. CD is more accurate than PD, while PD is faster. Thus, the hybrid system. I'm not sure why someone would turn off PD, I've never done so and can't imagine a set of circumstances under which I would. Perhaps someone here who does can explain. I don't think PD is available with older A-Mount lenses.

Here's an excellent explanation of how Sony's Hybrid AF works. If you just want to see that part, start around 9:30. Most of it is over by 11:40.

Thanks for the link Brownie! Gerald explain this very well. You see here in the setup by Mark where he set the phase detect to of..

Sony A7RIV Bird In Flight BIF - Wildlife Autofocus Camera Menu System Setup Guide

Bird Photography Workshops: http://photoworkshopsandtours.comHelp support me and what I do: https://ko-fi.com/marksmithphotographySONY A7RIV QUICK START GUID...

youtu.be

 

[Brownie]

Thanks for the link Brownie! Gerald explain this very well. You see here in the setup by Mark where he set the phase detect to of..

Sony A7RIV Bird In Flight BIF - Wildlife Autofocus Camera Menu System Setup Guide

Bird Photography Workshops: http://photoworkshopsandtours.comHelp support me and what I do: https://ko-fi.com/marksmithphotographySONY A7RIV QUICK START GUID...

youtu.be

Thanks. I already know how to do it, I would like to know why he's doing it.

 

[Brownie]

Thanks. I already know how to do it, I would like to know why he's doing it.

Ok, I just sorted it out. The only thing that setting does is display the PD area when on, or not display it when off. It does not turn the PD AF itself on or off. Having the area displayed allows you to see when your subject is in the AF area.

HOWEVER, it really doesn't matter on the A9II. The snip below is directly out of the A9II manual, note the third bullet point. You can't see it with a FF lens regardless. Odds are this is for using an APS-C lens. It displays PD focus area for the part of the sensor in use.

In other words: Fughedaboudit...

 

[Slug]

Often small birds in a tree will be just a dark shadow, I find AEL useful when spot metering small birds in such backgrounds. I'm able to meter on a branch close-by hold the AEL button to lock that exposure then move back to the bird to take the shot.

 

[lodbrok]

Ok, I just sorted it out. The only thing that setting does is display the PD area when on, or not display it when off. It does not turn the PD AF itself on or off. Having the area displayed allows you to see when your subject is in the AF area.

HOWEVER, it really doesn't matter on the A9II. The snip below is directly out of the A9II manual, note the third bullet point. You can't see it with a FF lens regardless. Odds are this is for using an APS-C lens. It displays PD focus area for the part of the sensor in use.

View attachment 29693

In other words: Fughedaboudit...

Yes!!! It will always be on - you can only choose to see it or not in third party lenses. That make sence since the PD is a major component in the hybrid focusing system. First the PD find the object and then the CD finish the job. And that made me thinking of the situation on my last field-trip with bad light and very dark bird(cormorant) I have set the balanced emphasis in continious shooting. Maybee the low contrast on the bird made the camera to fire only when phase detection has detected the bird while the contrast detection was struggeling achiving focus?

 

[lodbrok]

Often small birds in a tree will be just a dark shadow, I find AEL useful when spot metering small birds in such backgrounds. I'm able to meter on a branch close-by hold the AEL button to lock that exposure then move back to the bird to take the shot.

That is a good tip! I uses back-button focus so then I can release the button when going into the branches. Almost the same as AEL.

 

[Brownie]

Yes!!! It will always be on - you can only choose to see it or not in third party lenses. That make sence since the PD is a major component in the hybrid focusing system. First the PD find the object and then the CD finish the job. And that made me thinking of the situation on my last field-trip with bad light and very dark bird(cormorant) I have set the balanced emphasis in continious shooting. Maybee the low contrast on the bird made the camera to fire only when phase detection has detected the bird while the contrast detection was struggeling achiving focus?

AF depends on light. Contrast detect needs light to see the contrast. Any camera is going to struggle in low light, low contrast.

You can improve that by using a faster lens. There's also an AF Illuminator for low light, but it has limitations. For one thing it doesn't work in continuous AF. You'd also need to be close to your subject, these are mostly limited to indoors.

At the top left of this page there's a link called Blog and Resources. Click it, and then click the 'cameras' link at the top. Look for your camera on the scroll down list, then click the 'Manual' link. After that, choose the 'Online help guide'. There's a search box at the top to type in search terms. I don't have an A9II, I am getting most of this information from that help manual.

Lastly, a word about You Tube influencers. They can be a good place to start but there's no substitution for figuring out what works best for you. It's ok to change a setting. Just because he likes it doesn't mean you will, or that you need it. I find him turning off the PD area unnecessary and inexplicable, although I'll keep an open mind until I know why.

 

[lodbrok]

AF depends on light. Contrast detect needs light to see the contrast. Any camera is going to struggle in low light, low contrast.

You can improve that by using a faster lens. There's also an AF Illuminator for low light, but it has limitations. For one thing it doesn't work in continuous AF. You'd also need to be close to your subject, these are mostly limited to indoors.

At the top left of this page there's a link called Blog and Resources. Click it, and then click the 'cameras' link at the top. Look for your camera on the scroll down list, then click the 'Manual' link. After that, choose the 'Online help guide'. There's a search box at the top to type in search terms. I don't have an A9II, I am getting most of this information from that help manual.

Lastly, a word about You Tube influencers. They can be a good place to start but there's no substitution for figuring out what works best for you. It's ok to change a setting. Just because he likes it doesn't mean you will, or that you need it. I find him turning off the PD area unnecessary and inexplicable, although I'll keep an open mind until I know why.

Thanks for the tip on manuals in here! Hope Sony develop a new and faster 200-600mm and maybee dobble the prize for it since the 600mm prime F4 is way far out from my budget. And if they do, maybee two options - one with buildt in TC like Nikon has. and one without.

 

[Brownie]

Thanks for the tip on manuals in here! Hope Sony develop a new and faster 200-600mm and maybee dobble the prize for it since the 600mm prime F4 is way far out from my budget. And if they do, maybee two options - one with buildt in TC like Nikon has. and one without.

If they increase the speed then the size and cost will both go up. There's nothing wrong with the 200-600 as it is. Your camera can produce good shots at high ISO to compensate for the slower aperture. Another option is to get an A-Mount adapter and pick up a fast A-Mount prime. IQ on these lenses is top notch and they can be had for a lot less than the current Sony long primes.

 

[lodbrok]

If they increase the speed then the size and cost will both go up. There's nothing wrong with the 200-600 as it is. Your camera can produce good shots at high ISO to compensate for the slower aperture. Another option is to get an A-Mount adapter and pick up a fast A-Mount prime. IQ on these lenses is top notch and they can be had for a lot less than the current Sony long primes.

Haven't thought of that using A-mount lenses with an adapter! Reading me up on this now and found this very good test:

Guide to Using Sony A-Mount Lenses on Sony a7RII

Here's a look at how Sony A-mount lenses perform on Sony a7RII using the camera's on-sensor Phase Detection AF system with Sony smart adapters.

briansmith.com

I miss a faster lense due to a friend of mine having several photo-hides for raptor-birds and am afraid of the 200-600mm will struggle in low light conditions. I see other friends of him with fast lenses down to F2,8 takes very good shots even when snowing - low light etc.

There is a A mount sony prime lense 300mm F2,8 very suitable for those conditions. A pre-owned goes for around 3500 dollars. + the extender.

 

[Brownie]

Haven't thought of that using A-mount lenses with an adapter! Reading me up on this now and found this very good test:

Guide to Using Sony A-Mount Lenses on Sony a7RII

Here's a look at how Sony A-mount lenses perform on Sony a7RII using the camera's on-sensor Phase Detection AF system with Sony smart adapters.

briansmith.com

I miss a faster lense due to a friend of mine having several photo-hides for raptor-birds and am afraid of the 200-600mm will struggle in low light conditions. I see other friends of him with fast lenses down to F2,8 takes very good shots even when snowing - low light etc.

There is a A mount sony prime lense 300mm F2,8 very suitable for those conditions. A pre-owned goes for around 3500 dollars. + the extender.

Be careful with lenses and extenders (TCs). Some will not AF. Some have limitations. Make sure you understand what each one can and can't do. The A7RIV uses the LA-EA4 for FF AF. It can use the LA-EA5, but not with the old screw-drive lenses, you'd need to use the later lenses.

There are MANY threads in this forum regarding A-Mount lenses and adapters. @spudhead uses them a lot, as do I and a few others. I suggest a forum search and read.

I also suggest a look at Dyxum.com. They have an extensive database for A-Mounts and extenders, with a good guide for which TC will AF with which lens.

 

[lodbrok]

I will follow your advices Tim! I saw spudhead's latest shots with the 300mm.