Sony A7 IV Clear Image Zoom

[Gaz]

Is anybody using this “feature”, on an A7iv?

I’ve heard that I can only shoot in a jpeg format, and, results are not as noisy when compared to crop mode.

Has anyone set up a button to toggle it on, when you don’t want to swap primes?

Thanks font!

 

[Brownie]

Is anybody using this “feature”, on an A7iv?

I’ve heard that I can only shoot in a jpeg format, and, results are not as noisy when compared to crop mode.

Has anyone set up a button to toggle it on, when you don’t want to swap primes?

Thanks font!

All you're doing with any of those is cropping in camera. Same as Super 35 mode. You're reducing your MP count. On the A7-IV shooting in APS-C results in just under a 15MP shot, as I recall.

The reason that Clear Image Zoom results has 'less noise' is that when you get a jpeg from your camera, it's a processed RAW, but it happens in-camera and is based on what Sony engineers think you want your images to look like. It adds NR when it processes. If you don't like the amount of NR it adds, you're out of luck.

If it were me, I'd set up focus assist so you can zoom in on the focus area, then make the shot in RAW and crop how you want in post.

Any mode that "zooms in" to take the photo is a crop. Digital Zoom, Clearview, APS-C, etc. Some result in processed images only, some can be used in RAW. It probably makes more sense for someone with an RIV or RV, because they end up with a 26-ish MP image, if memory serves.

Optical zoom will always beat digital zoom. I know many people prefer primes, but to me, the ultimate walk around lens has a good FL range.

 

[Gaz]

All you're doing with any of those is cropping in camera. Same as Super 35 mode. You're reducing your MP count. On the A7-IV shooting in APS-C results in just under a 15MP shot, as I recall.

The reason that Clear Image Zoom results has 'less noise' is that when you get a jpeg from your camera, it's a processed RAW, but it happens in-camera and is based on what Sony engineers think you want your images to look like. It adds NR when it processes. If you don't like the amount of NR it adds, you're out of luck.

If it were me, I'd set up focus assist so you can zoom in on the focus area, then make the shot in RAW and crop how you want in post.

Any mode that "zooms in" to take the photo is a crop. Digital Zoom, Clearview, APS-C, etc. Some result in processed images only, some can be used in RAW. It probably makes more sense for someone with an RIV or RV, because they end up with a 26-ish MP image, if memory serves.

Optical zoom will always beat digital zoom. I know many people prefer primes, but to me, the ultimate walk around lens has a good FL range.

I ran a test this morning shooting a few frames at 2x Clear Image zoom. It’s a heif file…. That’s how I know it wasn’t shot full image.

Fact is, it’s a 30Mp Heif file size of 5Mb. The metadata doesn’t say anything about the zoom.

This warrants further testing, I reckon as I wasn’t this close….

Heif format [exported by Apple by converting to jpg]

• ILCE-7M4
• FE 85mm F1.8
• 85.0 mm
• ƒ/1.8
• 1/8000 sec
• ISO 125

Raw [exported by Apple to jpg]

 

[Gaz]

Definitely, they’re both 32Mp images 7008x4672 but one is HEIF.

85mm F11

85mm F1.8 using the magic crop setting. It seems to use full frame, unlike the asp-c crop

 

[Brownie]

So it's HEIF, not jpeg? Or do you get to choose?

I went and watched a couple of videos, no one seems to know exactly what the process is, but a statement from Sony leads one to believe they're upscaling in camera using something they call 'By-Pixel Technology'. It must crop the image then spread it out over the entire sensor by upscaling. One video reviewer did a lot of side-by-side testing of Crop Mode and Clear Zoom. Crop Mode has slightly more detail, but Clear Zoom's signal to noise ratio is a bit better. That makes sense considering the processing they're applying. Sounds like it's a decent choice if you don't want to process, but APS-C RAW would be better if processing.

 

[Gaz]

So it's HEIF, not jpeg? Or do you get to choose?

I went and watched a couple of videos, no one seems to know exactly what the process is, but a statement from Sony leads one to believe they're upscaling in camera using something they call 'By-Pixel Technology'. It must crop the image then spread it out over the entire sensor by upscaling. One video reviewer did a lot of side-by-side testing of Crop Mode and Clear Zoom. Crop Mode has slightly more detail, but Clear Zoom's signal to noise ratio is a bit better. That makes sense considering the processing they're applying. Sounds like it's a decent choice if you don't want to process, but APS-C RAW would be better if processing.

You can use heif or jpeg I think, but I use heif since I use Apple equipment, and it is not lossless but it is considerably better than jpg. No doubts.

What the camera is doing is voodoo, as the image is full frame resolution, and, because it’s zoomed in prior to pulling the trigger, I think the focus/sharpness is at least equal, but probably better because of the improved contrast. It’s cheeky. My 85mm F1.8 is roughly 200mm with Clear Zoom, without the degradation of jpeg.

Anyway, we will test some more to see if the 32Mp file at 7k x 4.6 is actually sharper than simply cropping. I expect it is, otherwise what would be the point?

 

[Gaz]

It's worth exploring a little more, I think.

I went out with the 85mm F1.8, and, if I had my 200-600 with me, I'd probably has taken this shot with that lens instead.

But this shot is 85mm F1.8 at 2x clear image zoom... does that make it 170mm equivalent?

The resolution is still 32Mp, so whatever the camera does, it permits relatively sharp focus, and at least the HEIF format retains quite a lot more data compared to jpg. This boat on the horizon... so a long way off, as shot. No ps or lightroom. I did level it a half degree or so.

• ILCE-7M4
• FE 85mm F1.8
• 85.0 mm
• ƒ/1.8
• 1/3200 sec
• ISO 125

HEIF exported from Apple photos to jpg, then uploaded here.... so resolution is diminished in transfer.

 

[-ST-]

Gary, here's an article for your consideration.

Sony mirrorless cameras’ secret super power: Clear Image Zoom

Sony mirrorless cameras’ secret super power: Clear Image Zoom

www.redsharknews.com

 

[Gaz]

I guess it could be of more interest to me because I rely on primes. I doubt there is a reason to use it with zooms.

 

[Brownie]

I guess it could be of more interest to me because I rely on primes. I doubt there is a reason to use it with zooms.

If you can get to the point that you trust it for critical shots, a 200-600 all of a sudden becomes 1200. That'd be fine as long as you don't need a lot of processing. It would definitely be safer shooting to HEIF like you are so there's more bit depth for adjustments. Might be fun to play with! Of course you can still do the same thing with most software: RAW>process>crop>upscale. It all depends on how much time you want to invest.

Now I'm wondering what happens if you shoot in clear zoom, then crop and upscale again in the computer?!

Edited to add: Evidently Affinity Photo will open HEIF files. Might play around with it this weekend if I get the chance, I'd like to compare IQ with processed RAW.

 

[Gaz]

If you can get to the point that you trust it for critical shots, a 200-600 all of a sudden becomes 1200. That'd be fine as long as you don't need a lot of processing. It would definitely be safer shooting to HEIF like you are so there's more bit depth for adjustments. Might be fun to play with! Of course you can still do the same thing with most software: RAW>process>crop>upscale. It all depends on how much time you want to invest.

Now I'm wondering what happens if you shoot in clear zoom, then crop and upscale again in the computer?!

Edited to add: Evidently Affinity Photo will open HEIF files. Might play around with it this weekend if I get the chance, I'd like to compare IQ with processed RAW.

There’s a thought. I can test it on the moon. The 200-600 isn’t quite long enough!

 

[Brownie]

There’s a thought. I can test it on the moon. The 200-600 isn’t quite long enough!

So, shoot the moon with clear zoom, then uber-crop, then upscale. Should be able to see the golf balls they hit...

 

[Brownie]

Well, tried to mess with it today, but can't decode HEIF without downloading a CODEC, can't download the CODEC without an MS account, and I'm not going to open an MS account for a $0.99 CODEC. Am not interested in jpeg, so I guess I'm out until MS decides the $0.99 charge isn't worth the effort it free.

FWIW, I did shoot some and view in-camera using the Sigma 100-400. From what I could see on the little screen they looked pretty good.

Edit:

HOLEEEE CRAP!

@Gaz, thanks for the incentive to research this! Not sure how often I'll use it, but the results are pretty amazing.

I realized I may have a back door so I tested my other programs. Turns out Darktable will open HEIF, so I imported the folder and picked one, then exported as a PNG and opened it in Affinity.

You can click through any of these to Flickr to avoid the forum's downscaling.

EDITED AGAIN
So, I learned today that the first images I posted were not made with Clear Image Zoom. They were just regular images. I had made photos both with and without that day and had inadvertently grabbed the wrong one. Here's how I know: Embedded in the exif is a digital zoom ratio. The one below shows a 2, so it has a digital zoom of 2X the optical focal length. The original images showed a 1 there, so no digital zoom.

So, in order to keep everything proper and on the up and up, I have deleted the first image and its crops and am replacing it with this one, which was indeed shot with Clear Image Zoom (check the exif!). I didn't bother with the second round of upscaling this time because it really made no difference n the end.

I am not at all disappointed with the end result, this image stands up as well as the first one.

Sony A7IV w/200-600 and CIZ, FL Equiv 814mm.
DSC09518 by telecast, on Flickr

7MP crop of above
DSC09518 by telecast, on Flickr

 

[Brownie]

Yep Tim I have seen this before and not really explored it much your shots look good and the shutter speed is quite low as well, so even more impressive

Yeah, I walked out the back door to try this out and she was right there. I didn't take any time for fear she'd be gone, the exposure meter said it was correct so I just shot. But then it's only one stop, from 400mm to 1/200. But that raises and interesting point: When shooting in APS-C, you have to consider the longer FL equivalent when thinking about shutter speed. I wonder if that's still an issue with clear zoom?

 

[Gaz]

Well, tried to mess with it today, but can't decode HEIF without downloading a CODEC, can't download the CODEC without an MS account, and I'm not going to open an MS account for a $0.99 CODEC. Am not interested in jpeg, so I guess I'm out until MS decides the $0.99 charge isn't worth the effort it free.

FWIW, I did shoot some and view in-camera using the Sigma 100-400. From what I could see on the little screen they looked pretty good.

Edit:

HOLEEEE CRAP!

@Gaz, thanks for the incentive to research this! Not sure how often I'll use it, but the results are pretty amazing.

I realized I may have a back door so I tested my other programs. Turns out Darktable will open HEIF, so I imported the folder and picked one, then exported as a PNG and opened it in Affinity.

You can click through any of these to Flickr to avoid the forum's downscaling.

First image is SOOC (almost) with a slight bit of sharpening applied. No other adjustments were made. It is uncropped.
First image by telecast, on Flickr

Second image is a 7MP crop of the same image, no further adjustments.
Second Image by telecast, on Flickr

Third image is a 37MP upscale of the previous image. No further adjustments.
3rd image by telecast, on Flickr

Fourth image is a 7MP crop of the upscaled image.
Forth Image by telecast, on Flickr

That’s quite impressive for free!
There’s another setting specific to jpg/heif I want to test… HLG.

If I keep this up, I’ll need a specific set of camera profiles for Heif. Maybe those three memory profiles on the A7iv will come in handy after all!

 

[Brownie]

That’s quite impressive for free!
There’s another setting specific to jpg/heif I want to test… HLG.

If I keep this up, I’ll need a specific set of camera profiles for Heif. Maybe those three memory profiles on the A7iv will come in handy after all!

I want to see if I can assign Clear Zoom to a key and have it function without having to adjust the amount of zoom.

 

[Gaz]

That lens though!

 

[Gaz]

I want to see if I can assign Clear Zoom to a key and have it function without having to adjust the amount of zoom.

I’ve already been looking at it.
The sticking point is switching from raw to heif. That’s more than a click away… so the whole process takes a few seconds, deep in menus. Too annoying.

I’m thinking of separate memory profiles for heif and raw… but the devil is in the details.

I did try dedicating AEL to zoom. Work’s brilliant and can scroll the rear wheel to adjust zoom. But, you already need to be in heif

 

[Gaz]

I’ve set C3 to image quality settings
Then permanently set zoom to “clear image zoom”

Then use rear wheel to scroll between 1x and 2x.

That’s c3, enter, down, enter, AEL, dial.
This cuts the time down to a second or so.

I really miss a simple toggle between heif and raw. That would remove three clicks.

 

[Brownie]

That lens though!

That's my main lens at the track. It's no slouch. Part of the reason for the purchase was the size and weight compared to Sony's. The difference of $900 to $2500 was no small part either. Is the Sony worth $1600 more? Nope. In fact, I bought my 200-600 on sale for $1600! It was a top-notch two-fer!

 

[Brownie]

I’ve already been looking at it.
The sticking point is switching from raw to heif. That’s more than a click away… so the whole process takes a few seconds, deep in menus. Too annoying.

I’m thinking of separate memory profiles for heif and raw… but the devil is in the details.

I did try dedicating AEL to zoom. Work’s brilliant and can scroll the rear wheel to adjust zoom. But, you already need to be in heif

I have my drag racing setup on Mode Dial Custom 1. It's the same settings I'd use for an air show. I have some temporary bird settings in Custom 2. I need to refine those some. However, there's not much else I shoot that needs a complete permanent setup, so I may program this to Custom 3 and see if I actually use it much.

The A7RIII has this too. Makes me wonder what it'd look like on the higher resolution sensor.

 

[Brownie]

I’ve set C3 to image quality settings
Then permanently set zoom to “clear image zoom”

Then use rear wheel to scroll between 1x and 2x.

That’s c3, enter, down, enter, AEL, dial.
This cuts the time down to a second or so.

I really miss a simple toggle between heif and raw. That would remove three clicks.

I went about it a bit differently. I went into My Menu and started a second page, then added the jpeg/Heif switch, the IQ selector, The Zoom, and Zoom range. If I want to switch everything is at least in one spot.

 

[Gaz]

I’ve also found a good compromise.

I have AEL now set to AEL.
C3 - allows zoom adjust so I don’t hit it by accident.
1,2,3 are set to RAW
Function menu bottom row is now set to give access to heif settings
Steadyshot
Image quality settings
HLG toggle
Picture profile
DRO
Creative look

I’ve been using PAL in 123 extensively, except for manual, so this compromise might work. In RAW C3 is inoperable but that’s a small price to pay.

It seems counterintuitive that I can set a button to toggle between heif and jpeg, instead of heif to raw.

 

[Brownie]

I'm not sure I'll use it that often. I can see it if I'm out trying to catch bird closeups or wildlife, but those aren't all that often. I don't need instant access, just convenient. When I think about trying to capture BIF with a 1200mm FL Equiv it sends shudders down my spine!

Weather is supposed to be better tomorrow. I may mount the 200-600 and sit out in my hide and give it a real workout. It's going to come down to the usability of the images. Very interested to see if shadows and highlights can be recovered when needed.

 

[Gaz]

I'm not sure I'll use it that often. I can see it if I'm out trying to catch bird closeups or wildlife, but those aren't all that often. I don't need instant access, just convenient. When I think about trying to capture BIF with a 1200mm FL Equiv it sends shudders down my spine!

Weather is supposed to be better tomorrow. I may mount the 200-600 and sit out in my hide and give it a real workout. It's going to come down to the usability of the images. Very interested to see if shadows and highlights can be recovered when needed.

I’m going out tonight at sunset to get the flying foxes! The 200-600 was simply too heavy for all that action but excellent while they’re roosting. The 85mm was too short for flight. I was about to buy a 135gm to do the job.

• ILCE-7M4
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/2000 sec
• ISO 1600

Need more light!

• ILCE-7M4
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS
• 207.0 mm
• ƒ/7.1
• 1/2000 sec
• ISO 640

 

[Brownie]

I’m going out tonight at sunset to get the flying foxes! The 200-600 was simply too heavy for all that action but excellent while they’re roosting. The 85mm was too short for flight. I was about to buy a 135gm to do the job.View attachment 34500

View attachment 34502

Cool! Love that top one.

Seems like a good place to try a 70-200 with clear image zoom.

 

[Gaz]

Cool! Love that top one.

Seems like a good place to try a 70-200 with clear image zoom.

200mm would be just about right, I think, for capturing them in flight if you're aperture is wide enough. I've been fiddling around with ISO, shutter speed and aperture to try and get it right... but I've got plenty more work to do, and every night there are about 15 minutes before sunset when they start flying off, after which they're just black spots on a darkening sky.

 

[Brownie]

Did some more research. As near as I can tell, there is no appreciable change in light when using clear image zoom. Unlike using APS-C or digital, the camera is using the entire sensor. And unlike a TC there is no optical change, so no light reduction. Image quality remains very high, degradation is almost nonexistent. This seems to be true whether you use HEIF or JPEG, the biggest difference would be if you want more latitude in post.

I can no longer say that optical zoom beats digital zoom every time, provided the digital zoom in question is Sony's Clear Image Zoom. For the other types the statement still holds true.

I am shocked (and evidently so are the you-tube reviewers I watched) that this feature doesn't get more notice. It's also very useful for video.

 

[Gaz]

Ok, I'm convinced now.
Clear Image zoom is a better solution than any shoot and crop.

I want to see a toggle from Sony for going from RAW to HEIF. There are two switches in the menu for going from HEIF to JPEG. That makes no sense to me. I'm using the program switches for now, but that's not as efficient as allocating C3 to toggle between them.

With the following four prime lenses, I have acquired an excellent focal range in F1.8.
Sony 14mm GM F1.8 ~ 14-28mm F1.8 Zoom
Sony 35mm GM F1.4 ~ 35-70 F1.4 Zoom
Sony 85mm F1.8 ~ 85-170mm F1.8 Zoom
Sony 135mm GM F1.8 ~ 135-270mm F1.8 Zoom

There are two downsides that I see. The first is that the results have full frame pixel counts and there seems to be no easy way to identify which images have been captured using clear image zoom. That's the kind of problem Id like to embrace.

As for the second issue, I had already purchased the Sony 20mm F1.8 so the 14mm might not get much of a workout at 2x, or if it does, I've got a lens for sale

• ILCE-7M4
• FE 135mm F1.8 GM
• 135.0 mm
• ƒ/4
• 1/160 sec
• ISO 250

Compare the depth of field..... The next image uses CIZ. It's as if by magic, I've fitted a 270mm F1.8 Lens.

• ILCE-7M4
• FE 135mm F1.8 GM
• 135.0 mm
• ƒ/1.8
• 1/1000 sec
• ISO 400

Surprisingly, the 2x zoom works perfectly for old lenses too. My old Pentax mount Tamron 35-70 macro zoom, for instance.

• ILCE-7M4
• ----
• 1/250 sec
• ISO 12800

Granted it is a different frame, but I swear it is sharper.

• ILCE-7M4
• ----
• 1/250 sec
• ISO 12800

Gaz

 

[Brownie]

Nice. I read a post or saw a video somewhere about an easier way to access it, will need to see if I can find it again.