Ok so here is your chance to have a say, get it out what is Sony doing right or wrong, kit, firmware, service what ever you want

[Brownie]

in-camera focus stacking - I'm not going to bother researching it, but I would be surprised if any camera offering this feature allows the stacking of more than a handful of frames, because there simply isn't the memory in the camera to allow it (and cameras don't have disk space!). From what I've read in forum posts written by serious focus stackers, they talk about stacking 100+ frames to get a really beautiful result. So if you are a manufacturer wanting to support focus stacking, do you implement a solution to the serious focus stacker problem (which is what Sony has done, in implementing a focus bracketing solution supporting up to 299 frames in a bracket, which have to be stacked in post-processing), or do you cater to the toy solution (supporting in-camera stacking of maybe four frames, outputting as JPEG - the output can't be a RAW file). I very much doubt that the clamour for in-camera stacking is coming from the serious stackers.

You do both. OM-D offers up to 15 shots, which is probably plenty for most people. So you have in-camera stacking for that. If someone feels they need 100 frames to 'get a really beautiful result', then you offer the three-ring circus that Sony has. How hard is it on a $4,000 camera to stick it in the program? I can gaurangodamnedtee Sony already has the software written.

As for the comment in firmware, spoken like a true Fanboy. Companies survive by keeping their customers happy. With the ever and constantly shrinking camera market, it's even more important you stop people from going to someone who makes improvements. And I don't really have a problem with charging for firmware upgrades with the following caveats:

Bug fixes should be free forever.
ONLY after Sony has stopped manufacturing a specific model. Anything still being manufactured should be upgraded regularly with whatever they can add.

Anyone who buys a new A7 II, A7 III, A7R III or A7R IV is going to be sorely disappointed when it comes to support, and that is bullshit.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

Interesting, I did not know that. It pretty much removes both from consideration. I want the ability to put my cameras on a custom mode and not worry about major settings. Stupid idea, Sony.

I didn't know this either, and that is utterly daft, because you can on the A7RIV

 

[spudhead]

Interesting, I did not know that. It pretty much removes both from consideration. I want the ability to put my cameras on a custom mode and not worry about major settings. Stupid idea, Sony.

I dont see the issue trust me it not an issue on the a9 we are not talking about a camera that hits the buffer or blacks out

 

[Brownie]

I dont see the issue trust me it not an issue on the a9 we are not talking about a camera that hits the buffer or blacks out

Doesn't matter. I have several custom modes set up for what I need. I spin the dial to 1, 2, or 3, and I have the settings I want. The last thing I need is to have to remember to move 2 or 3 dials to get something so common as burst rate. I guess that's Sony's idea of a 'professional' set up. Idiots.

 

[liggy]

Different strokes, I guess.

Coming from Fujiland I quite like the A1/A9 dials.

And I’m considering selling my GFX100S because I dislike the PASM/custom dial controls.

I suppose if it were my only camera it would be convenient to just select C1-7 but that’s not how I like to interact with my cameras.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

SONY IS AWESOME!!!

 

[Brownie]

And here we go! Sony puts their stupidity and lack of care for their customers on display once again! What a terrible decision.

In case you missed this: Sony A6700 ships without USB cable or charger! – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

The charger was bad enough, now they can't include a $0.25 cable?

 

[iamdlewis]

I dont see the issue trust me it not an issue on the a9 we are not talking about a camera that hits the buffer or blacks out

It isn't about hitting a buffer it is about knowing exactly what the settings are. I tend to use my A7Riv for landscape stuff but from time to time I grab my A1 because the A7Riv is setup for something. I use the A1 for some sunset stuff return it to the bag and then set out early the next day for some bird stuff. Out in the field I switch from M to 1 as I see my first bird press the shutter button and nothing. 5 seconds later I have an image of something. When the A7Riv was my primary this wasn't an issue because the Shooting Mode and Frame Rate were set electronically.

Also birds in a tree I don't need or want the frame rate to be on H or H+ because I don't want to go through extra images later. And it is faster to change 1 dial than 2 or 3.

Doesn't matter. I have several custom modes set up for what I need. I spin the dial to 1, 2, or 3, and I have the settings I want. The last thing I need is to have to remember to move 2 or 3 dials to get something so common as burst rate. I guess that's Sony's idea of a 'professional' set up. Idiots.

Exactly.

And here we go! Sony puts their stupidity and lack of care for their customers on display once again! What a terrible decision.

In case you missed this: Sony A6700 ships without USB cable or charger! – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

The charger was bad enough, now they can't include a $0.25 cable?

I don't think I have ever used a Sony charger. The lack of cable is due to the EU laws to reduce electronic waste.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

And here we go! Sony puts their stupidity and lack of care for their customers on display once again! What a terrible decision.

In case you missed this: Sony A6700 ships without USB cable or charger! – sonyalpharumors

www.sonyalpharumors.com

The charger was bad enough, now they can't include a $0.25 cable?

Misers. This really shows that they are thinking that everyone buying one is an existing customer or has a suitable cable and charger from another source.

 

[iamdlewis]

Misers. This really shows that they are thinking that everyone buying one is an existing customer or has a suitable cable and charger from another source.

This isn't a Sony thing. The EU is pushing for less electronic waste and cables are part of the problem, so they have a law that basically standardizes the charging cable requirements based on power needs and also told companies to no longer supply the cables starting at some point. Earlier this year I got a new Samsung phone and there was no cable and when Apple announced that they were no longer shipping cables with devices they claimed it was to save the planet rather than being told not to.

 

[Brownie]

This isn't a Sony thing. The EU is pushing for less electronic waste and cables are part of the problem, so they have a law that basically standardizes the charging cable requirements based on power needs and also told companies to no longer supply the cables starting at some point. Earlier this year I got a new Samsung phone and there was no cable and when Apple announced that they were no longer shipping cables with devices they claimed it was to save the planet rather than being told not to.

Meanwhile everyone goes to the store or Amazon and buys one anyway, and it cost billions to make the rule.

 

[iamdlewis]

Meanwhile everyone goes to the store or Amazon and buys one anyway, and it cost billions to make the rule.

Given that there is a significant population that is basically clueless about most things it will improve things if there is a standard charging cable. Most people will eventually figure out that if device A and device B both have the same shape charging port they can use the same cable and will understand that they already have lots of them. Will some people buy a new cable every time they buy a new device, sure but stupid can only be fixed to a point.

I don't understand your statement about the cost of making the rule.

 

[Brownie]

Given that there is a significant population that is basically clueless about most things it will improve things if there is a standard charging cable. Most people will eventually figure out that if device A and device B both have the same shape charging port they can use the same cable and will understand that they already have lots of them. Will some people buy a new cable every time they buy a new device, sure but stupid can only be fixed to a point.

I don't understand your statement about the cost of making the rule.

None of which has anything to do with supplying the needed cable with the camera. Why should someone paying $1400 for a camera have to 'eventually figure out' which cord they need to use? It's bullshit. Still not as bad as not supplying a $2 charger, but stupid nonetheless.

As to the cost of making the rule, nothing on a bureaucratic or political level happens for free within a single government entity, let alone a union like the EU. The amount of money wasted on institutional stupidity isn't a new concept.

 

[iamdlewis]

None of which has anything to do with supplying the needed cable with the camera. Why should someone paying $1400 for a camera have to 'eventually figure out' which cord they need to use? It's bullshit. Still not as bad as not supplying a $2 charger, but stupid nonetheless.

I have been trying to remember if my A6000 came with a charger but can't remember, I did get a kit which I believe had a non-Sony charger. I do know the reason why I got the A6000 over the Canon or Nikon was that you could charge it via USB through the camera.

As to the cost of making the rule, nothing on a bureaucratic or political level happens for free within a single government entity, let alone a union like the EU. The amount of money wasted on institutional stupidity isn't a new concept.

With that logic no decision is without a cost. I will say that I applaud the EU for creating this rule because it was clear that the electronics industry was starting to move more and more towards a world in which every device had a unique charging cable so that they could all make their $1 cable and charge us $15. Remember we use Sony who instead of making the camera body about 5% larger decided to go it alone with CF-Express Type A.

 

[Brownie]

I have been trying to remember if my A6000 came with a charger but can't remember, I did get a kit which I believe had a non-Sony charger. I do know the reason why I got the A6000 over the Canon or Nikon was that you could charge it via USB through the camera.


With that logic no decision is without a cost. I will say that I applaud the EU for creating this rule because it was clear that the electronics industry was starting to move more and more towards a world in which every device had a unique charging cable so that they could all make their $1 cable and charge us $15. Remember we use Sony who instead of making the camera body about 5% larger decided to go it alone with CF-Express Type A.

The point is it'd be less costly and restrictive to just include the cable. Just another stupid rule that will have absolutely zero effect on anything, but it makes the sheep feel all warm and fuzzy.

And again, what does the EU requiring a standardized cable have to do with Sony supplying one? Nothing at all.

Ever have a battery swell during charging? I have, and I almost didn't get it out. I absolutely refuse to charge in-camera. If a battery swells in the charger, it costs you a battery. If it swells in the camera, it could cost hundreds of dollars and repair time. Sony shipped the A7 IV without a charger, and that was the first thing I bought.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Hi Tony just wondering if you are in fact part of Sony official marketing team or just believe Sony can not do any wrong and that is a serious question

My only relationship with Sony is as a user of their products.

I've thought about the question at some length before, and came to the conclusion I summarised - that any other solution is worse. If you have a set of dials which control the drive mode and the focus mode, and which show the current mode, then any override of them in a custom mode is going to be troublesome.

Let's imagine the dial is set to AF-C, and you override it in custom mode 1 to MF - and you pick up the camera the following day and panic when the lens is not auto-focusing - is the lens broken?

The price of having those dials (and I like those dials) is the inability to override them in a custom mode.

Well, maybe it could be done - Sony could motorise those dials, and rotate them to the correct position when you switch modes. Not forgetting to unlock them before rotating. And if you have three custom modes each overriding them differently, then switching from one to the next starts spinning the dials...

OK, what if we remove the labels from the dials, and show the current setting in a little display? That means we can't set the dials without the camera being on, though. I do on occasion set them with the camera off - it's another advantage of having the physical dials (and a reason why I liked the physical exposure compensation dial).

Maybe add a light to indicate when the dial has been overridden in a custom mode? Does the dial stay inoperative in that mode, or does moving the dial override the override?

How would you solve it? It's a complicated question of user experience.

 

[spudhead]

My only relationship with Sony is as a user of their products.

I've thought about the question at some length before, and came to the conclusion I summarised - that any other solution is worse. If you have a set of dials which control the drive mode and the focus mode, and which show the current mode, then any override of them in a custom mode is going to be troublesome.

Let's imagine the dial is set to AF-C, and you override it in custom mode 1 to MF - and you pick up the camera the following day and panic when the lens is not auto-focusing - is the lens broken?

The price of having those dials (and I like those dials) is the inability to override them in a custom mode.

Well, maybe it could be done - Sony could motorise those dials, and rotate them to the correct position when you switch modes. Not forgetting to unlock them before rotating. And if you have three custom modes each overriding them differently, then switching from one to the next starts spinning the dials...

OK, what if we remove the labels from the dials, and show the current setting in a little display? That means we can't set the dials without the camera being on, though.

How would you solve it?

Tony I do not have an issue with the dials at all for myself I was just trying to put forward the point that we all have to accept that we do not all see things the same way which was the point of the thread. I have myself further up in the thread been told the dial arrangement is stupid, each to their own I guess its abc for me to change burst rate without my eye leaving the viewfinder and yes with my left hand, and I am right handed, and in fact I can have the camera in hi burst rate and still shoot a single frame, its simple really. Tony I think some posters have found it difficult to accept that you never have a negative thing to say about Sony and that fine if you are happy

 

[Brownie]

Tony I do not have an issue with the dials at all for myself I was just trying to put forward the point that we all have to accept that we do not all see things the same way which was the point of the thread. I have myself further up in the thread been told the dial arrangement is stupid, each to their own I guess its abc for me to change burst rate without my eye leaving the viewfinder and yes with my left hand, and I am right handed, and in fact I can have the camera in hi burst rate and still shoot a single frame, its simple really. Tony I think some posters have found it difficult to accept that you never have a negative thing to say about Sony and that fine if you are happy

Incorrect there. The dial arrangement itself isn't stupid. Not being able to program a setting into your custom modes is stupid. Those dials are electronic just like the rest of the camera. No reason you can't set them to where you want, save your custom mode, and have the settings applied automatically when you go to the custom mode. They can easily program it to ignore the current settings same as the rest.

 

[liggy]

Since I pretty much use the dials or the various buttons to change modes I'm a little confused.
Can you not get your preferred settings locked into the top right dial on 1,2 or 3?


Allows you to shoot an image after recalling your preferred shooting settings registered with [

Camera Set. Memory].

1. Set the mode dial to 1, 2, or 3 (
   
   Recall Camera Setting).
2. Press the center of the control wheel to confirm.
   • You can also recall registered modes or settings by selecting MENU →
     
     (Shooting) → [Shooting Mode] → [
     
     Recall Camera Setting].

Hint​

• To recall settings registered to the memory card, set the mode dial to 1, 2, 3 (
  
  Recall Camera Setting), then select the desired number by pressing the left/right side of the control wheel.
• If you recall settings registered to the memory card, the settings are recalled from the memory card in the slot specified in [
  
  Memory/Recall Media]. You can confirm the memory card slot by selecting MENU →
  
  (Shooting) → [Shooting Mode] → [
  
  Memory/Recall Media].
• Settings registered to a memory card using another camera of the same model name can be recalled with this camera.

Note​

• If you set [
  
  Recall Camera Setting] after completing the shooting settings, the registered settings are given priority and the original settings may become invalid. Check the indicators on the screen before shooting.
• If the slot to which images are recorded is set to change, the shooting settings will not be applied until writing to the memory card is complete even when the mode dial is set to 1/2/3.

I don't even remember what I input into 1,2 or 3. Typically I just hit the wheel for ISO which I change all the time I simply rotate the rear control wheel. For subject recognition I hit C3. For shutter speed, left dial goes from H+ to wherever it needs to go.

For long exposure - straight to M and DMF. I use crop mode frequently and it's programmed as a push on the right side of the control wheel and nearly all of my lenses have aperture dials.

Quick and easy (at least for me)

 

[iamdlewis]

Ever have a battery swell during charging? I have, and I almost didn't get it out. I absolutely refuse to charge in-camera. If a battery swells in the charger, it costs you a battery. If it swells in the camera, it could cost hundreds of dollars and repair time. Sony shipped the A7 IV without a charger, and that was the first thing I bought.

So the actual change for the A6700 vs older models is that they now no longer ship with a USB cable as none of the A6xxx series ship with a charger. So this is really a lot of nothing.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

SSSSOOOONNNNYYYY!!!!

 

[Brownie]

So the actual change for the A6700 vs older models is that they now no longer ship with a USB cable as none of the A6xxx series ship with a charger. So this is really a lot of nothing.

No, it's a lot of Sony downgrading their accessories once again. You can argue and debate all you want, this is pure bullshit and greed hidden under the guise of some nonsense earth-friendly garbage. If they can't do it in Europe because of the whiney-assed EU, they can still send them to the US. I'm still pissed I had to buy a charger for my A7 IV. No way Sony would get it my money after that. Aftermarket all the way. Do you think the elimination of that cable resulted in even one cent discount of the camera? Hardly.

 

[AlphaWorld]

No, it's a lot of Sony downgrading their accessories once again. You can argue and debate all you want, this is pure bullshit and greed hidden under the guise of some nonsense earth-friendly garbage. If they can't do it in Europe because of the whiney-assed EU, they can still send them to the US. I'm still pissed I had to buy a charger for my A7 IV. No way Sony would get it my money after that. Aftermarket all the way. Do you think the elimination of that cable resulted in even one cent discount of the camera? Hardly.

Am I allowed to mention that Apple no longer supplies a charger with their phones?

 

[AlphaWorld]

Tony I do not have an issue with the dials at all for myself I was just trying to put forward the point that we all have to accept that we do not all see things the same way which was the point of the thread. I have myself further up in the thread been told the dial arrangement is stupid, each to their own I guess its abc for me to change burst rate without my eye leaving the viewfinder and yes with my left hand, and I am right handed, and in fact I can have the camera in hi burst rate and still shoot a single frame, its simple really. Tony I think some posters have found it difficult to accept that you never have a negative thing to say about Sony and that fine if you are happy

I’ve been trained from a young age to always consider the other point of view, and to consider the implications of what someone is asking for. Part of it was the family I grew up in, part of it relates to the work I do. I guess part of it might even be blamed on too much time in a debate team at school )

But when I see a bunch of people insisting on something is wrong or horrible or whatever, my mind insists on considering the opposite. Especially when I feel the discussion is unbalanced - there is always another side - and I speak up when it seems like a criticism is unfair. You don’t need to tell me that different people see things differently - I can’t help seeing that.

Hmm - maybe the way to get me to discuss negative aspects of Sony is to be effusively positive about something? Go on, I know you can do it!

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

This isn't a Sony thing. The EU is pushing for less electronic waste and cables are part of the problem, so they have a law that basically standardizes the charging cable requirements based on power needs and also told companies to no longer supply the cables starting at some point. Earlier this year I got a new Samsung phone and there was no cable and when Apple announced that they were no longer shipping cables with devices they claimed it was to save the planet rather than being told not to.

Save the planet, that won't help one iota. Stop China building coal fired power stations at a rate pf a few a day, that will help, not leaving out cables.

 

[Brownie]

Not to mention the rainforest decimation. USB cables

Am I allowed to mention that Apple no longer supplies a charger with their phones?

You can mention whatever you like. I don't use Apple phones, so I don't give a rat's fat ass.

 

[Brownie]

Save the planet, that won't help one iota. Stop China building coal fired power stations at a rate pf a few a day, that will help, not leaving out cables.

Or the decimation of rain forests. Yeah...USB cables...that'll solve it.

 

[MeowZzz]

We usually need lots of charge cables --- these go missing q. often and usually right after whenever the kids visit (which is probably just a coincidence)

Save the planet, that won't help one iota. Stop China building coal fired power stations at a rate pf a few a day, that will help, not leaving out cables.

Well, the whole plan has always been about confusion, struggle and chaos --- of course, the puppet-master could not give two hoots about the planet, but knows that those in Euro-US-AUS/NZ-Canada do.

 

[iamdlewis]

Save the planet, that won't help one iota. Stop China building coal fired power stations at a rate pf a few a day, that will help, not leaving out cables.

Or the decimation of rain forests. Yeah...USB cables...that'll solve it.

Ah the "well that won't solve the problem by itself so it isn't worth doing" argument. The law was created for 2 reasons, one of those reasons was to help reduce electronic waste (which it is doing) and the other more important reason was to protect consumers by creating a standard. You complain about having to buy a charger but look at the number of devices you have that need some kind of cable and think about how much you could be charged for each of them.
Like my gf bought headphones that have a unique charging cable that is about 8" long, feels super cheap and the replacement cost $15 plus shipping because there is no other source. This was the last model they released before the EU law took effect. This is the one item she has that doesn't use a USB-C cable.
As for the charger and the A6700 that doesn't appear to be a change for how they have shipped the A6xxx series. So why does it now matter now?

 

[Brownie]

You complain about having to buy a charger but look at the number of devices you have that need some kind of cable and think about how much you could be charged for each of them.

Exactly, thanks for making my point. We were charged for each one of them but won't see a frigging penny discount on an item that doesn't have one.

For everyone arguing minutia: This is about the overall issue, the big picture, not a USB cable. That particular item just happens to be my current object of my affection.