So you want to buy a camera huh?

[FowlersFreeTime]

Had a fishing buddy contact me yesterday and he said he has seen my Facebook photos and he wanted me to suggest a camera for him. His past experience is waterproof point and shoots (like me, Olympus TG-series) and in recent years his iPhone. He said he has been on some nature-focused vacations recently and he wants to step up to a "real" camera.

I tried not to flood him with too much info, so after I gave him a disclaimer that I can only comment on Sony cameras, I guided him to either the A7IV or A7C-II. I told him to specifically go to a store to try either camera in his hands. He is a heavier guy than me, so I figure he may not like the smaller grip of the APSC line-up. I figured the A7C-II he can always get the grip extender if the camera body is otherwise a good fit for his needs. I warned him that the lenses can be as expensive as the camera, so he needs to be a bit more aware of whether he wants to shoot wide or tele, but if he's looking for a jack of all trades he could maybe take a look at the Sony 24-105 f4 as a starting point. Hopefully I steered him in the right direction.

So how do you offer advice to friends or acquaintances who would be potential camera buyers?

 

[Brownie]

As a rule everyone I know who has an interest in photography is already outfitted. Once in a while someone will ask, but the conversation is usually the end of it. Most people tend to put on the brakes when they find out how much it costs. If someone does ask, I tend to steer them toward a lower-cost option unless I know they're well-off.

For a beginner, KEH and MPB offer good prices and warranties on used gear. A good used A7R III or A7 III would be excellent choices for a beginner that would last as long as they wanted, and they can be had for $1300 +/-. Couple it with a decent used Tamron 28-200 (which would be a better single-lens option IMO) and he's good to go for around $2k. If money is no object, steer him toward other more costly options.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

@Brownie really good suggestions, and I will mention the Tamron to him if he revisits the conversation. He's not hurting for cash, and I know he likes new shiny things, so I was steering him to newer cameras with improved AF. If he balks at price tags, I like the idea of a used A7R III or IV, since I know he's not interested in video.
My only clue to him being more serious than expected is that he also asked my opinion on editing software, and I told him flat out Adobe Lightroom.

 

[iamdlewis]

I've been asked this a lot. I generally start by asking them what they want one for which generally leads to "just use your phone as that is what I do." The ones who make it past that then generally ask what the cost of my setup is. I can generally tell if my answer to that makes them have 12-15 thoughts against the "real camera" idea. If they still ask more questions I tend to then tell them that all of this takes practice and time and that they should start with a cheap camera and lens combo till they understand what they want to do and then I offer to help them find a good camera/lens combo. Most never follow up.

I told him flat out Adobe Lightroom

Man you really don't like them do you.

 

[Brownie]

Man you really don't like them do you.

Kind of what I was thinking, but I already poo-pooed his lens recommendation so I thought I'd leave it lie...

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Hah! and here I thought I was doing them a favor by skipping straight to "best in class" with the Adobe recommendation

 

[Brownie]

Hah! and here I thought I was doing them a favor by skipping straight to "best in class" with the Adobe recommendation

Teach a man Adobe and he's a slave forever. Go look at Ed's thread about their newest way to charge you more!

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Teach a man Adobe and he's a slave forever. Go look at Ed's thread about their newest way to charge you more!

hah, and yet you and I were the only non-subscription based editing software users from my poll last week!

 

[Brownie]

hah, and yet you and I were the only non-subscription based editing software users from my poll last week!

Hence my slave comment. It was the first and many people got on board. They knew exactly what they were doing when they went to subscription based, because everyone was already hooked. Some of the other programs have caught up and are gaining, but it's like trying to overcome Canon's market share.

Now we'll wait for all the Adobe purists to come say why it's the best, or why they don't mind paying every month, or how it's just as economical, or (insert your own justification here).

 

[spudhead]

Well I am a Capture One bitch started with the free limited version , but was very limiting , tried the adoppy crap but I did not like it

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I would never buy second hand so I don't steer people that way.

First thing I ask is how much they're willing to spend. Most of the time that answer will be 'a couple of thousand'. I generally just recommend a Fujifilm X-S10 with the 16-80mm f4 and get it when one of the shops are doing a hectic sale. Wide enough to get a waterfall shot, long enough for a bit of telephoto. I'll tell them to buy that and let me know how they're going in a few months. Can sell it and get almost all their money back if they want to go in deeper, or if that's enough then they have a nice setup always on hand.

 

[alexpler]

It's hard to be helpful in these situations. Everyone has its preferences and interests when it comes to photography genres, and that determines the type of camera that you may need.

Also I'm afraid that most people think expensive gear = better photos, and that if they can't produce good photos is because they're doing it with a smartphone or cheap camera. When in truth, if you can't get decent photos with those, you most certainly won't get them with a flashy camera either.

On the other hand there will be capable and talented hobbyists who will be pushed back once they realize how expensive cameras and lenses can be, and think that buying an older model or APS-C model is just not worth it. But it can be a solid step in their learning process.

All in all, lots of things to consider and a very private issue.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

I always say go to a store and hold the cameras first, because being comfortable shooting is a big deal. I will also always ask what budget they have. I will then suggest some models

 

[AlphaWorld]

I've been asked this a lot. I generally start by asking them what they want one for which generally leads to "just use your phone as that is what I do." The ones who make it past that then generally ask what the cost of my setup is. I can generally tell if my answer to that makes them have 12-15 thoughts against the "real camera" idea. If they still ask more questions I tend to then tell them that all of this takes practice and time and that they should start with a cheap camera and lens combo till they understand what they want to do and then I offer to help them find a good camera/lens combo. Most never follow up.


Man you really don't like them do you.

No, if you don’t like them you recommend PhotoShop.

I use it, because it’s ingrained, but the learning curve is steeper than LightRoom, DxO PhotoLab, Capture One, etc.

When people write books over an inch thick on how to use ACR to process RAW files into PhotoShop…

 

[Brownie]

So now that Alpha has dug up this 5-month-old dead thread, tell us @FowlersFreeTime, did the enquirer ever buy a camera?

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

So now that Alpha has dug up this 5-month-old dead thread, tell us @FowlersFreeTime, did the enquirer ever buy a camera?

He's currently traveling so I'll ask him when he gets back. I think when last we spoke, he was going to borrow his father's Canon Rebel (no idea what model/vintage) to see if he was really going to get into photography or if it was just a passing whim.

 

[iamdlewis]

No, if you don’t like them you recommend PhotoShop.

I use it, because it’s ingrained, but the learning curve is steeper than LightRoom, DxO PhotoLab, Capture One, etc.

When people write books over an inch thick on how to use ACR to process RAW files into PhotoShop…

I have both CapOne and the Adobe products, I don't actually pay for the Adobe stuff, I have a family connection for this but I do pay for CapOne.

I have convinced two people that CapOne is better for them than the Adobe stuff by getting them to crop an image and import files.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

No, if you don’t like them you recommend PhotoShop.

I use it, because it’s ingrained, but the learning curve is steeper than LightRoom, DxO PhotoLab, Capture One, etc.

When people write books over an inch thick on how to use ACR to process RAW files into PhotoShop…

I started out on Photoshop because that's all I knew.
I never actually made the leap to Lightroom, because at the time I was thinking about it, I got introduced to Capture One express then I found ON1.

 

[Richard A]

I shy away from giving advise to anyone these days. Most of the people I know are askholes! They ask your advice and then do the exact opposite!

First question I would ask of anyone asking me about cameras is what is your budget. If they say they don't know then I tell them to work it out and then come back and see me. Next thing I would ask is what are you using now, then let me see some of your photos. If I think they have some potential then I may recommend something. I have no problem recommending used gear. There are some real bargains out there but you have to be careful.

 

[Clix Pix]

hah, and yet you and I were the only non-subscription based editing software users from my poll last week!

Huh? Did I miss something? I'm also a non-subscription-based editing software user, too! Many years ago I used Photoshop, but when Lightroom came out, that was the same time that Apple was releasing its wonderful and now long-lamented Aperture. Once Aperture was no longer supported, I reluctantly began the search for new software and when I discovered DXO PhotoLab, that was the one for me. Intuitive, I could achieve what I wanted with it, not too overly complex like Capture One had been.

Currently I'm using ON1 and DXO PhotoLab 7, with occasional hops into Luminar for specific finishing touches. (I like their Erase, Blur and Clone tools better than others, as well as their useful Dodge and Burn tool).

Back on topic: for a beginner, I definitely would not recommend Photoshop or Lightroom. Probably I'd suggest DXO PhotoLab first. I like ON1 but I think DXO is better as a learning tool so that one gets a sense of how editing tools work and what they do or don't do. ON1 is a bit more automated than that and while this can be beneficial for doing a quick job on an image, one really can't learn much from the experience. Also I have found that there are some images which I prefer to work on in DXO PhotoLab rather than ON1.

As for camera and lens recommendations, yes, I'd recommend a Sony A7 III or IV for starters, rather than the A7R IV or V, and as for lenses.....hm.... I'd definitely inquire as to what the person was thinking he or she wanted to shoot, and if at this point they didn't really know, just " oh, gee, everything," then probably the 24-70mm or 24-105mm as a general all-around lens. Zoom rather than prime to give them some space for flexibility while they were figuring things out and as a way of helping them begin to get the hang of composition, etc.

I also would recommend that they look into a community college beginning photography class or one online, as well as picking up a book which is specific to using the camera they're purchasing.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I discovered digital photography after I discovered Linux. So no subscription models for me! And no payment either. darktable and gimp.

I am not against paying for software. I have one paid noise reduction package: neat image, although I don't use it often. In fact, the free demo is enough, but thought I'd unlock the rest and support them anyway.

I don't recommend cameras, but then nor have I been asked. Having been totally into Sony for the past several years, I do not have any useful balanced experience to inform if another brand would suit someone better.

 

[Tachikaze]

The A7II is a fine camera for the money and can be had with the kit lens for around a grand. I am very happy with mine and it does everything I need a "real" camera to do and more. I did pick up a Sony 50mm ƒ1.8, a new Tamron 20mm ƒ2.8, and a used Sigma 100mm-400mm and don't use the kit lens, so with a new spare battery I now have under two grand into the rig.