Sony A1 Custom Key to set Focus Area on AF ON button

[GracieAllen]

I'm sure every shooter has their preferred custom settings for the various buttons that work for them. I'm trying to get some things set that'll improve MY handling - but part of my problem is that I'm not used to using a joystick to move things. So, I keep pushing on the quadrants of the control wheel to move focus area and all sorts of things...

I set up the control wheel to change ISO - that is NOT a good idea if you accidentally rotate the wheel and don't notice - you suddenly find yourself at ISO 50 when you WANT to be in AUTO ISO. So that custom setting is now going away. I LIKE ISO on the right quadrant and Disp on the up, so I'm doing OK with those.

I figured out how to Register a focus area using the AF/MF>AF Area Registration. I selected the Spot Tracking and registered it. I've set the AEL button (2 on the diagram) to Regist AF Area tggle - so when I press AEL it switches to Spot Tracking. Press again and it goes back to whatever it was. Hopefully that will speed me up.

I periodically need to turn off the face/eye priority in AF because it seems to get confused (OR I get confused and use it wrong). A dragonfly around some blades of grass can cause it to insist on focusing on something that ISN'T the dragonfly's head. So, I've set AF ON to Face/Eye Priority Select. This tells me on-screen when I have this on or off. BUT, should I instead be using Face/Eye Prio. Off Tggle? That DOESN'T give me a message on-screen, just changes the icon for Face/Eye priority from On to Off... Is one better than the other?

I've put Exposure Compensation on C1 because when I get a bunch of zebras I can quickly change it without having to mess with the dial - which changes it until I remember and manually change it back.

I've got metering on C3. I had AF/MF on there but I thing metering is a better use of that since I've now figured out where the "MF" setting is (that's 2+ hours of searching all over the manuals and Internet I'll never get back. But eventually, I backed into finding it and slapped myself on the forehead for being a dummy)...

Overall, my Fn Menu seems reasonably good, and I'm slowly getting settings on the buttons that seem to work pretty well for me... This will probably change over time as I get better at the Alpha 1 controls...

If the above makes sense, or at least isn't counterproductive, my only question is about the Face/Eye priority (see above)...

Are there OTHER things I should be looking at?

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Hi David,
as you indicate the settings of the A1 do ultimately come down to the preferences of the individual,
whilst many are regularly used by many professional so it does make sense to follow or at least check out the
experiences of others well reported set-ups......it can also save time from hours of trying many options.

I agree to set ISo to the control wheel is not the most efficient setting for the reasons you point out, most
use the right wheel quadrant as you seem to have found.

On the AEL/AF-ON buttons I have found to set AF-ON to Registered Area + AF-ON, with Zone as RA , with
my Manual prime settings at Wide Area gives me the option to move seemlessly between the wide/zone
shooting areas whilst I have AEL set to custom registration + AF-ON which gives me immediate static
subject settings with AF-ON also.

On focus area it helps to have one of your C1 or C2 buttons set to focus area and in this way you can change
areas as needed quickly but also in conjunction with long press FN button this will enable you to quickly
change the registered area should you need to.

On face eye priority it is wise to understand that FEP overides your area settings to a certain degree in so
far if you have Wide AREA selected, say, the cameras algorithm will seek focus on what is front and center
whilst with face eye priority it will seek to focus wherever your camera sees a face or eye in the viewfinder.

If the camera does not recognise a face or eye, as maybe with your dragonfly example, then yes it will be
focussing to the rules of your area setting, which may well be nearby blades of grass. I have one of my
buttons set to switch off eye priority as and when needed(the "Trash" button)

Hope this helps

Other areas you might want to set up are your "My Menu" settings and in registering your most frequently
used menu items assign that to one of the Camera buttons...I for example have "format" as the number 1 item
on my MM to avoid having to hunt around in the menus for it.....I also have many others in my MM.

Fundamentally between your buttons/wheel custom settings, fn settings and "MM(My Menu) you should seek
to never need to go into the general menu listings , in order to speed up your overall workflow.

 

[GracieAllen]

Thanks for the reply…

I’ve watched at least three people’s videos – Mark Galer (a bunch), Mark Smith (a couple), and I think Dave Lyon (I could be wrong about the name. And read setups from at least 5 or 6 people. And you’re right – without some idea of a starting point, it would take a LOT of hours trying bad choices.

Initially, I largely copied Mark Galer’s, but realized he has a lot of situations where he’s dealing with indoors and people portraits and flickering lights and such, so I started refining my Fn Menu choices.

I also took a bunch of Mark Smith’s settings, including the one to use the control wheel directly as the ISO adjustment. And several others of his, like C1 for AUTO ISO Min SS I believe. I found those weren’t good choices for me – at least not until I’m a lot more experienced with the camera.

I left the ISO on right wheel and Disp on top wheel, and I believe C2 defaults to Focus area so I left that. If that isn’t the default for C2, I have mine set that way.

I also very quickly put Format in the My Menu along with one or two others – I followed the advice that if you go searching for something more than a few times, it may be better located on the My Menu.

I’ll figure out which works best on AF-ON and AEL as I shoot (hopefully today).

I tried the Registered Area + AF-ON, but that only works for me as a button hold. It doesn’t toggle, so I switched it to Registered AF Area toggle. That way I don’t have to hold the button and I can quickly switch from Zone to Spot. Does Registered Area + AF ON actually toggle and I’m missing something?

I don’t understand your statement “I have AEL set to custom registration + AF-ON which gives me immediate static subject settings with AF-ON”. What does this do? And what setting are you using?

I’m getting a better feel for the FEP workings. Wide seems GREAT when I have a single subject with a background that doesn’t interfere. Otherwise, I’ve had it insist on focusing on lily pads instead of swan’s eyes (which I can understand since the eye and the area around it are both black). Even Zone sometimes winds up wandering off.

On your setup using C4 to turn off eye priority – is that Face/Eye Prio. Off Tggle? Or are you using a different setting?

I think C4, the Trash button, defaults to Touch Operation Select. I haven’t tried putting something else there, but possibly use that for Finder Frame Rate. I have the default as since that’s something that doesn’t get set in the Custom Shooting mode set. I have display quality on High and FFR on Standard so when I switch FFR to High the display quality automatically drops to Standard.

Or possibly AUTO ISO Min SS since I do have to change that fairly frequently. I've noticed the camera never moves above the Min SS for any situation where I've set it - if I have AUTO ISO Min SS at 1/2000 and have ISO Range set to something like 100 - 3200, it never shoots at 1/2500 or 1/3200 - at least not in any situation I've been in. Am I correct that the camera would have to want an ISO lower than my minimum before it would increase shutter speed? Or is there some algorithm in there that would have the camera increase shutter speed if it got down to ISO 400 for example?

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

On the prominent professional wildlife shooters on youtube you mention I would also would
recommend Steve Perry at Back Country Photography.......he is a very practical shooter but very
very experienced and capable and is able to explain clearly and help people understand
anything around wildlife shooting.

He also has set-up videos for the A1.

Registered AF Area + AF ON does toggle on my A1 and I find in practice and for my style of shooting
I often need to make that quick switch from Wide Area to Zone dependent upon my subject movements.

On a similar note as regards my AEL setting I have it set to Recall Custom Hold 2, maybe my terminology
on my earlier note was misleading, it is one of three Recall custom holds in the shooting menu under
Registered Custom Shoot Set and allows you to set required parameters which overide your main settings
on depressing AEL...I have it set to static , shutter priority with modifed ISO and spot focus. this again gives
quick access for static subjects. It is a toggle setting/button, and means i can switch between action Wide area
to Zone to Static whilst looking through the viewfinder and just moving my thumb between AF-On and AEL,
Both AF-ON and AEL are toggled as above but also invoke autofocus on leaving me only to press the shutter
button with my forfinger....it is a very quick and flexible set-up.

I have face eye priority set in my fn menu with C4 set to Face/eye subject select.

Both i can again operate with my eye to the viewfinder and with Face/eye priority on, repeated presses of C4
will bring up a selection box on the viewfinder or monitor which allows you to select human, animal or bird

As you have no doubt found sometimes the eye select will not work for a particular bird but on animal it will...
the vagueries of the A1 algorithms......

On the Auto ISO min shutter speed, as i shoot mainly in MANUAL i dont use it that much as it only works
on aperture priority.

In operation it basically will try to satisfy your SS
needs subject to light conditions and lift the ISO in doing so, as needed, but if in shooting it needs to lift
ISO above your ISO set max limit it will actually drop your shutter speed below your set limits....you will still get
an image but it may introduce motion blur.

in setting your shutter speeds for ISO Auto/Min SS you should also consider the slow,slower or high, higher settings
as opposed to specific set limits as these will lower or raise your speeds to set proportions of your max/min so you
maintain a degree of control over the degree of SS drop when ISO hits the roof of your iso max.......its basically a
choice butween ISO grain and shutter motion blur.......

hope this helps.......

 

[Jeff A]

Thanks for the reply…

I’ve watched at least three people’s videos – Mark Galer (a bunch), Mark Smith (a couple), and I think Dave Lyon (I could be wrong about the name. And read setups from at least 5 or 6 people. And you’re right – without some idea of a starting point, it would take a LOT of hours trying bad choices.

Initially, I largely copied Mark Galer’s, but realized he has a lot of situations where he’s dealing with indoors and people portraits and flickering lights and such, so I started refining my Fn Menu choices.

I also took a bunch of Mark Smith’s settings, including the one to use the control wheel directly as the ISO adjustment. And several others of his, like C1 for AUTO ISO Min SS I believe. I found those weren’t good choices for me – at least not until I’m a lot more experienced with the camera.

I left the ISO on right wheel and Disp on top wheel, and I believe C2 defaults to Focus area so I left that. If that isn’t the default for C2, I have mine set that way.

I also very quickly put Format in the My Menu along with one or two others – I followed the advice that if you go searching for something more than a few times, it may be better located on the My Menu.

I’ll figure out which works best on AF-ON and AEL as I shoot (hopefully today).

I tried the Registered Area + AF-ON, but that only works for me as a button hold. It doesn’t toggle, so I switched it to Registered AF Area toggle. That way I don’t have to hold the button and I can quickly switch from Zone to Spot. Does Registered Area + AF ON actually toggle and I’m missing something?

I don’t understand your statement “I have AEL set to custom registration + AF-ON which gives me immediate static subject settings with AF-ON”. What does this do? And what setting are you using?

I’m getting a better feel for the FEP workings. Wide seems GREAT when I have a single subject with a background that doesn’t interfere. Otherwise, I’ve had it insist on focusing on lily pads instead of swan’s eyes (which I can understand since the eye and the area around it are both black). Even Zone sometimes winds up wandering off.

On your setup using C4 to turn off eye priority – is that Face/Eye Prio. Off Tggle? Or are you using a different setting?

I think C4, the Trash button, defaults to Touch Operation Select. I haven’t tried putting something else there, but possibly use that for Finder Frame Rate. I have the default as since that’s something that doesn’t get set in the Custom Shooting mode set. I have display quality on High and FFR on Standard so when I switch FFR to High the display quality automatically drops to Standard.

Or possibly AUTO ISO Min SS since I do have to change that fairly frequently. I've noticed the camera never moves above the Min SS for any situation where I've set it - if I have AUTO ISO Min SS at 1/2000 and have ISO Range set to something like 100 - 3200, it never shoots at 1/2500 or 1/3200 - at least not in any situation I've been in. Am I correct that the camera would have to want an ISO lower than my minimum before it would increase shutter speed? Or is there some algorithm in there that would have the camera increase shutter speed if it got down to ISO 400 for example?

Have you tried Mark Galer's CAMSET for the A1. You could save your setup and load his CAMSET and give it a try. There are so many settings for the A1 (and almost any of the new cameras) that I think it's easy to get lost in all the settings, there are just so many, and too many times, one effects the other. One thing that helped me so much in learning and memorizing my setup was to create a spreadsheet with all of my settings on it so I could see it altogether. Here is what it looks like. The items printed in green are my personal tweaks to Mark Galer's settings.

 

[GracieAllen]

Thanks for replying. Y'all are saving me a lot of wasted time on mistakes.

On the prominent professional wildlife shooters on youtube you mention I would also would recommend Steve Perry at Back Country Photography.......he is a very practical shooter but very very experienced and capable and is able to explain clearly and help people understand anything around wildlife shooting.

I watched the Steve Perry video and I like his idea of Select Focus area. It's a lot faster than the Focus area menu with up/down and left/right for doing focus area.

Registered AF Area + AF ON does toggle on my A1 and I find in practice and for my style of shooting I often need to make that quick switch from Wide Area to Zone dependent upon my subject movements.

Yes, My switching to/from the Registered area also toggles. I misspoke earlier and now I'll have to figure out what I ACTUALLY meant!

On a similar note as regards my AEL setting I have it set to Recall Custom Hold 2

OK, now I'm following you. I created a Custom Hold just to try it, but haven't actually used it. If I understand correctly, this would be useful when I'm practicing on seagulls flying around, and suddenly want to get a picture of a member of the music group that's performing on the beach. Push button, bunch of settings change, shoot the performer, release button, swing back to birds and continue... Which happened a week ago, so I'll play some more.

I have face eye priority set in my fn menu with C4 set to Face/eye subject select.

I have both in the Fn Menu, but I'd like to TOGGLE the FEP from a button, though I'm getting faster with the Fn Menu. I'm using Tracking/Face-Off Toggle on the AEL button and it switches between the tracking focus area and equivalent non-tracking area when I toggle it.

I had them on separate buttons, using FEP Select and Tracking-Off Toggle, and they both WORK, but eventually I couldn't decide on a situation where I'd want just ONE or the OTHER on... When would I do Face/Eye priority and NOT want tracking? OR When would I want Tracking on WITHOUT face/eye priority? The ONLY time I could come up with was Air Shows where I might want it to track fast-moving planes, or sports where I might want it to track fast moving "vehicles" (race cars, motorcycles, snowmobiles, skate-boarders, skiers and such), where there's no eye and usually no face. Since I haven't tried this camera on any sports yet, I'm presuming (possibly incorrectly), that if the FEP doesn't find eyes or faces it figures out it should let the tracking track whatever it's focused on. If I'm incorrect, I know I CAN put them on separate buttons... How do other people handle this sort of thing?

On the Auto ISO min shutter speed, as i shoot mainly in MANUAL i dont use it that much as it only works on aperture priority.

I've always photographed BIF and such in Manual, but Mark Galer convinced me to use Aperture. But the AUTO ISO Min SS doesn't seem like a great fit. The "Slower" to "Faster" settings don't get me to 1/2500 that I've seen (faster appears to be 1/1000 if I recall), and I keep wanting the camera to use 1/2500 or 1/3200 for the shutter speed and it won't cooperate. I may have to go back to Manual Mode for this Custom Mode. I did notice it will go DOWN from the minimum set when it bangs the highest allowed ISO.

It LOOKS like I can do a reasonable job controlling noise up to about 6400 on this camera (maybe even 8000), especially with Topaz Denoise. So it's about the same as my D850 and about 1 stop higher than I was comfortable with on the D500. I've read several discussions, and Steve Perry commented that he doesn't usually go above 6400 because at 12800 the image "falls apart".

I'm at the point where I'm between consciously incompetent and consciously competent with the camera. Most of the time I know enough to set things to work. Now it's fiddling to optimize my use of the camera and QUICKLY make changes on the fly without having to think about what I'm doing.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Yes as we have discussed, at the end of the day, it will distill down to what fits for yourself, whilst the numerous
options/choices and final selections will eventually feed into muscle memory and become automatic as you use
your camera more and more.

The selection of Face/Eye priority, tracking, and Face/Eye subject select are interelated but also relate to the image
background/subject relationship.

AS my previous mail, wide or zone area shooting with tracking selected or not(say wide area tracking) will prioritise
viewfinder centre /foreground subjects to ID the subject to be tracked. However if you have Face/eye priority selected
also, any eye or face detectable will override the wide or zone tracking irrespective of the position of the camera
recognised face or eye.
Consequently if you are looking to shoot a bird in the background of your image, and as long as the camera will detect
its eye (on black birds with dark eyes the camera has difficulty detecting such birds) tracking of the bird will follow across
your image area as long as you have tracking sensitivity set to locked on, irrespective if your subject passes behind
objects etc for a short period.
In the event that your camera does not detect the eye or body of your bird say, then the wide/zone/spot etc algorithm
rules will apply and will be influenced by foreground /center objects, much the same as if you have Face/Eye priority
switched off.
So there are times when you will want to switch off face/eye priority and still maintain tracking either automatically
or based upon area selection.....even at these times your camera will still recognise a bird/Animal/human face/eye
but will not overide the basic rules of the focus area algortihms so at these times you will have to ensure your bird/
human or animal is in the central/foreground location for the camera to pick it up.

On the AUTO ISO min SS if you select specific numerical shutter speeds that is what this function will work to. In
setting to slow/slower or fast/faster settings the AUTO ISO min SS alogorithm will use your lens focal length to
set the desired speed based upon the normal reciprocal rule for say a 400mm lens at a rule of thumb level of
1/400 .....slow will be at i think it is -33%(1/300 or thereabouts) and slower at -60%....you can check these specific
level in the manual but this it the principle how these settings work.

Finally on the matter of ISO/grain, i use an ISO limit of 5000, but a high percentage of my shooting is under well lit
environmental conditions and so i do not get to 5000 very often but maybe you can provide me with some info as
regards TOPAZ denoise performance. I use lightroom or photoshop to remove reduce excessive noise when it occurs
which is OK but not great.......do you have any understanding of the quantative comparison of Denoise performance
over lightroom or photoshop, my understanding is Denoise is marginally better...???

 

[GracieAllen]

OK, so there are good reasons to have the ability to control tracking and FEP separately... I'll set up that way.

As for Topaz. I haven't used it yet on Anything from the Alpha 1, so all my information is from my Nikons. BUT, they should be analogous.

In my experience, Denoise AI is significantly better than anything I've been able to do in Lightroom. I've been able to get very clean D500 images shot at ISO 6400 and even 8000. Other people have had reasonable success at even higher ISO values, though I try not to do anything really crazy. I can say with confidence that for higher ISO images on which I've used it, it has been far superior to either Lightroom or Photoshop.

The second part of the effort is Topaz Sharpen AI. It's somewhat flakier than Denoise AI, and occasionally does a poor job, but for the most part I can images that are perceptibly sharper and better looking than sharpening in either Lightroom or Photoshop.

I've been using both for the last couple years and they've made it possible to regularly process high ISO images with better results that Lightroom and/or Photoshop alone. I'll try to pull a high ISO Alpha 1 image tomorrow and play a little and see what I can show in here.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Ok thank you David, good luck with your on-going settings adjustments.....don't hesitate if you need
any further help.....

Like you I was a Nikon shooter before transitioning to Sony and at one stage managed to purchase
a Z9 to superceed my D850s but promptly sold it on due to weight and performance limitations.......so
i have been through the same challenges you have been experiencing in moving to Sony .....

 

[GracieAllen]

Interesting that you had experience with the Z9. I wish I could have. The weight issue was one I struggled with - it would have been easier to get used to the Z9, but the weight and the fact that there is NO native xxx-600mm for the camera at this time was a drawback. And, of course, the reality that I was looking at somewhere into October or later to even get a Z9 and some unknown date in the distant future for a long lens...

In a different forum, I've read a lot of criticism of the Sony battery grip. I have one on my Alpha 1, and I think it's great. What's with all the complaints about ergonomics and style? It's no clunkier or uglier than the grips I had on ALL my Nikons (is the grip supposed to be attractive?), and it's a LOT lighter!

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

I had Nikon the 500 mm F4 fl lens as well as the 300mm and Sigma sports 150-600mm and when i got the Z9 (i was lucky to get an
early preorder unit) i also got the adapter F-Z mount and when i mounted the adapter with the Z9 with a grip(which is not detachable)
to get max FPS and before adding a x1.4 teleconvertor the whole set up was very heavy and as well the Z9 autofocus was questionable.

Because of the above I decided to ditch the Z9 and FZ converter which because of the order backlog i was able to sell very quickly with no loss
and i have kept my D850 with a number of prime lenses which i use for landscapes, macro and portraits with Sony for all action.

The A1 grip which is the same grip used on the A9 II and A7R iv and as i bought mine before buying my A1 when i bought my AR7 iv it
worked out fine and i have no problems with the grip aesthetically, ergonomically or functionaly.

The above said i will often go out on a shoot with only spare batteries in my bag and no grip and particularily if i am carrying an
assortment of lenses where i need to shed some weight.....

 

[GracieAllen]

I have some of the same things - 500 f/4, Tamron 150-600 G2, and so on. Had things gone as I was TOLD by the camera store, I'd have had a Z9 in mid-April. I was #12 when I ordered, and by end of April I was #9. And they were coming in about 1 per month. Always with the chance than an NPS member would jump the line. My wife was the one that got me off the dithering and had my buy the Alpha 1.

Anyhow, I like the grip, but I have a Small Rig L-Bracket for the body - which is fabulous. Depending on what I'm doing I leave the grip off.

Jeff A - you got lost somewhere in all the backing and forthing... I DID get Mark Galer's Camset and install it. He does a lot of things I don't do, where he's dealing with flickering lights and such, but I kept the stuff that seemed to work.

I also downloaded his e-book, so I'm going to be rummaging around in there.

One of the things I WISH Sony would do is treat the Tracking Toggle the same as the Tracking on. The tracking on, which I believe you have to HOLD, automatically switches from non-tracking focus area to tracking focus area, but you DON'T have to have the tracking focus areas defined in the Area Limit. The Tracking Toggle requires you to have tracking focus areas defined for it to work. Steve Perry loves the Tracking On because he only has 4 or 5 total areas defined - all non-tracking, and when he pushes the Tracking on button and holds it, he gets the equivalent tracking area. BUT, when he's jumping THROUGH the focus areas with the Focus Area Select button, he only has to go through a couple options...

But, that's a pretty niggly problem...