Sony A1 Sony A1: Underexposed files, but look fine on EVF.

[Townie]

I am a professional shooter and have been using a couple of A1 cameras for 2 years after 38 years with Nikon and Canon. For 38 years, I relied on my lightmeter all day, everyday, but since going mirrorless, I rarely (actually never) look at the meter. I change my variables until the scene looks the way I want it to, and press the button. Perfect. Except..... I have always said that the beauty of mirrorless is that there is no need to chimp your photos after you take them, because you have already chimped them before you press the button. Most of the time that is correct, but I find that when I'm shooting in really low light, especially with a nice subtle colour in the sky and also especially if the subject is silhoetted against that sky, there is a problem when I download the images. The images in this case are 3 to 5 stops underexposed. To the point, that there is no way I would have taken the picture if it had've looked that dark through the viewfinder.
I have spoken with my Sony rep at length about this, and we are both stumped. And no, I am not activating Bright Monitoring.
This only happens a couple of times a year. otherwise I would get into the habit of chimping very shot taken like this.
Has anybody had the same issue?

In the attached image, the top of the Memorial Cross was plainly visible in the viewfinder.

 

[spudhead]

Hi did you shoot with live view on? if so that will be the issue more than likely. You should turn it off in low light.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Bear in mind on play back you see a jpg extract from the Raw file and not the Raw image if indeed you are shooting in Raw.

 

[Townie]

Hi did you shoot with live view on? if so that will be the issue more than likely. You should turn it off in low light.

Bear in mind on play back you see a jpg extract from the Raw file and not the Raw image if indeed you are shooting in Raw.

I mentioned in my post that I didn't chimp (or playback) after taking the picture because I am so used to not needing to. In every other situation, it is what you see is what you get before you take the picture.

 

[Gaz]

WYSIWYG is what we demand when looking through the viewfinder of a mirrorless camera. When I first used one, I was amazed at how “sparkly” things were, but those are pixels shining back at me. It’s possible that there is a perceived difference between a pixel representing black, and a pixel representing almost black, that isn’t displayed that way on a high resolution monitor. The resolution and colour depth of the viewfinder - does it actually match the sensor? Does that match your monitor? When I look through the viewfinder now, I don’t see sparkles anymore but I wonder if the viewfinder just shows me what Sony wants me to see? Is that sharpness an AI feature? Etc.

That was a yes. I’ve also noticed the resulting image in raw or heif, darker than I saw through the viewfinder

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

I don't have the A1, but the same applies on the RiV. Viewfinder images are inherently brighter, and while I love that I can see changes made to settings as I make them, I don't rely on it for genuine exposure. I do tend to shoot over exposed (see Brownies thread) as it's easier to correct in post, but the RiV RAW images are extremely malleable too, which helps. Underexposure certainly creates more noise though (more than high ISO)

 

[spudhead]

I mentioned in my post that I didn't chimp (or playback) after taking the picture because I am so used to not needing to. In every other situation, it is what you see is what you get before you take the picture.

I do not want to state the obvious but as a pro it should be second nature to look at the numbers and exposure triangle in the viewfinder and the answer is in front of you regardless of what you see in the viewfinder, and all manufacturers provide ev dial for a good reason, we are all guilty of assuming the tech is better than experience pro, or a hobby shooter like most on here including myself

 

[PaulJohn]

I have this experience I think. I have been shooting for my church for nearly 10 years. This involves a band on stage in low light with stage lights that would typically fool a light meter. I have always shot in full manual mode and check my photos for exposure using the back of the camera. Using Sony mirrorless I have been using the EVF / monitor as a guide to judge exposure and have been underexposing by 1-2 stops. This hasn't bothered me as I can easily lift the exposure in post. More recently I thought I would try auto ISO and just see how it copes. On the monitor it looks like I am over exposing and clipping highlights on faces but when I get back to my computer the photos have been exposed perfectly. The meter has not been fooled by the stage lights which have been clipped as required. I should have known it would intelligently expose for faces but have never adjusted from my DSLR days until recently. The dynamic range latitude has covered up my bad habits.

 

[MeowZzz]

I am a professional shooter and have been using a couple of A1 cameras for 2 years after 38 years with Nikon and Canon. For 38 years, I relied on my lightmeter all day, everyday, but since going mirrorless, I rarely (actually never) look at the meter. I change my variables until the scene looks the way I want it to, and press the button. Perfect. Except..... I have always said that the beauty of mirrorless is that there is no need to chimp your photos after you take them, because you have already chimped them before you press the button. Most of the time that is correct, but I find that when I'm shooting in really low light, especially with a nice subtle colour in the sky and also especially if the subject is silhoetted against that sky, there is a problem when I download the images. The images in this case are 3 to 5 stops underexposed. To the point, that there is no way I would have taken the picture if it had've looked that dark through the viewfinder.
I have spoken with my Sony rep at length about this, and we are both stumped. And no, I am not activating Bright Monitoring.
This only happens a couple of times a year. otherwise I would get into the habit of chimping very shot taken like this.
Has anybody had the same issue?

In the attached image, the top of the Memorial Cross was plainly visible in the viewfinder.

Happens to me too. But I don't have a solution except chimp the first few you shoot off, then check the numbers and set manually - on the plus side, the range with RAW is big enough to make an image I find

 

[shawns_snapshots]

I am a professional shooter and have been using a couple of A1 cameras for 2 years after 38 years with Nikon and Canon. For 38 years, I relied on my lightmeter all day, everyday, but since going mirrorless, I rarely (actually never) look at the meter. I change my variables until the scene looks the way I want it to, and press the button. Perfect. Except..... I have always said that the beauty of mirrorless is that there is no need to chimp your photos after you take them, because you have already chimped them before you press the button. Most of the time that is correct, but I find that when I'm shooting in really low light, especially with a nice subtle colour in the sky and also especially if the subject is silhoetted against that sky, there is a problem when I download the images. The images in this case are 3 to 5 stops underexposed. To the point, that there is no way I would have taken the picture if it had've looked that dark through the viewfinder.
I have spoken with my Sony rep at length about this, and we are both stumped. And no, I am not activating Bright Monitoring.
This only happens a couple of times a year. otherwise I would get into the habit of chimping very shot taken like this.
Has anybody had the same issue?

In the attached image, the top of the Memorial Cross was plainly visible in the viewfinder.

Turn off „dynamic range optimizer“.
it applies to your JPEGs, and by that it also applies to the EVF.

 

[twamers68]

Turn off „dynamic range optimizer“.
it applies to your JPEGs, and by that it also applies to the EVF.

Hi, interesting. So do you mean that the image displayed in the EVF is a JPG regardless of shooting mode ? So if I shoot Raw only the image displayed in EVF will be a jpg ? This would make sense but never thought of it.

 

[shawns_snapshots]

Hi, interesting. So do you mean that the image displayed in the EVF is a JPG regardless of shooting mode ? So if I shoot Raw only the image displayed in EVF will be a jpg ? This would make sense but never thought of it.

Yes, indeed. Lots of people have your issue when they start out with Sony. I shot 2 stops underexposed for like a year myself.

 

[spudhead]

Going back to original question !!! As posted before refer to Sony manual, turn off live view in dark conditions, how do you suppose what you see with the naked eye looks dark, but when viewed through the evf it suddenly looks bright, its not magic its common sense with live view off once again what you see is what you get simple, the view through the evf will be so dark you will have to adjust the settings in manual, basic stuff. a link here one of many on here there are more by others with the same conclusion https://www.alphashooters.com/commu...ight-only-and-return-to-ship-via-tender.5184/

Hi, interesting. So do you mean that the image displayed in the EVF is a JPG regardless of shooting mode ? So if I shoot Raw only the image displayed in EVF will be a jpg ? This would make sense but never thought of it.

Ok so yes the image you see on the rear of the screen or evf even if shooting raw is an image similar to that of a edited in camera jpeg, hence the difference when you load raw files to your editing software

 

[RogerSmith]

Found this thread which really interests me. I fee like my A1 underexposes compared to my other Sony cameras. Found this comment:
The A1's matrix metering system tends to underexpose subjects against bright backgrounds ( from here)
See the image below, histogram looked great, EVF looked great, but looking at resulting JPEG I feel like its underexposed. I'm planning on printing this one and will go back to the RAW and lift the exposure. Appreciate thoughts

 

[spudhead]

Found this thread which really interests me. I fee like my A1 underexposes compared to my other Sony cameras. Found this comment:
The A1's matrix metering system tends to underexpose subjects against bright backgrounds ( from here)
See the image below, histogram looked great, EVF looked great, but looking at resulting JPEG I feel like its underexposed. I'm planning on printing this one and will go back to the RAW and lift the exposure. Appreciate thoughts
View attachment 49042

I am suprised you have not noticed this on other Sony cameras Roger, I am always playing with ev and am sure most of the other experienced Sony shoots on here do the same

 

[RogerSmith]

I am suprised you have not noticed this on other Sony cameras Roger, I am always playing with ev and am sure most of the other experienced Sony shoots on here do the same

I really only noticed it on the A1, going to really play with EVF settings, and recalibrate my monitor I use for image processing.

 

[spudhead]

I really only noticed it on the A1, going to really play with EVF settings, and recalibrate my monitor I use for image processing.

Please post your conclusion Roger

 

[shawns_snapshots]

Found this thread which really interests me. I fee like my A1 underexposes compared to my other Sony cameras. Found this comment:
The A1's matrix metering system tends to underexpose subjects against bright backgrounds ( from here)
See the image below, histogram looked great, EVF looked great, but looking at resulting JPEG I feel like its underexposed. I'm planning on printing this one and will go back to the RAW and lift the exposure. Appreciate thoughts
View attachment 49042

Exposure looks completely fine to me, what’s wrong?

The raw will have all the information from all areas, so you can adjust it any way you like.

 

[spudhead]

I've now looked at that image on four separate screens and there's not a thing wrong with it. I suggest you check your monitor calibration.

I did not think that it looked bad I assumed it was more of a general problem that Roger had just noticed across multiple images

 

[spudhead]

Turn off Live view in low light. That should help.

Same answer I gave at the start of the thread

 

[spudhead]

Then I'm in good company! I don't think @Townie saw that post.

No I think he did and clearly read my further comment latter in the thread and and never returned to the site as far as I can see, well that is pros for you

 

[Butch]

Townie I just had this issue! Two shoots, 4 stops underexposed but worse, the LCD showed them well done and the meta numbers showed them well exposed. In post I could bring them up those 4 stops. I have been shooting film for two months again so I called my friend Lloyd Chambers of Diglloyd.com. We thought it was pilot error. Next shoot I was super careful but it happened again. Neither of us could figure it out. Then two days ago we spent hours on the phone with the camera and through the process of elimination we solved it!

In Video, I use PP10 or PP11. In Camera shoot manual mode but ... PP10 was on somehow. That is S-Log 3. It is meant to be edited and color corrected by video software. It may have been my setting the camera up for video a few months ago and forgetting to get out of PP10 for stills. I know what happened but not why the camera does this. It is an apparent bug in Sony.

Solution: go to COLOR in the shooting menu, and when in CAMERA turn OFF any PP. I don't even use PP2 any more. Just OFF. Now it immediately acts like it should. ALL is well. Hope this helps.

Butch

 

[Angus Cameron]

Townie/Butch ... If you check that you have separated the settings for Stills and Movies I think that might eliminate the issue. Additionally, keep DRO off as others have said.

Search the manual for "Different Set for Still/Mv" and separate the settings.

That will stop the PP from Movies interfering with your Stills.

Hope that helps.

Angus.

 

[Soundmike]

Townie/Butch ... If you check that you have separated the settings for Stills and Movies I think that might eliminate the issue. Additionally, keep DRO off as others have said.

Search the manual for "Different Set for Still/Mv" and separate the settings.

That will stop the PP from Movies interfering with your Stills.

Hope that helps.

Angus.

Presume this only applies to the A1 and A9111 . As others have said this is a common accurance on most sony cameras ,my A9II does it, looking in the Evf its fine then when you download to computer it's like somebody has turned the lights off .

 

[Angus Cameron]

Presume this only applies to the A1 and A9111 . As others have said this is a common accurance on most sony cameras ,my A9II does it, looking in the Evf its fine then when you download to computer it's like somebody has turned the lights off .

Hi John,

I have never experienced this issue. So I pulled out my A7R2 and A7S to test, you are correct this is not in the setup menus.
If I choose a picture profile for movie in either camera and go into manual mode for instance then the picture profile stays set as per movie mode.
I suspect this has never been an issue for me as I set up the custom mode dial with typical good starting settings as follows 1 for Portrait settings 2 for action and 3 for landscape. In assigning these to the mode memories when you set the picture profile in movie and switch to a memory recall of 1,2 or 3 the picture profile setting is altered by the memory setting, in my case it auto magically reverts to PP off in all 3 memory settings. I seldom use the mode control in Av,Tv or manual.

Maybe this could work for you?

Hope that helps.

Angus.

 

[Soundmike]

Hi John,

I have never experienced this issue. So I pulled out my A7R2 and A7S to test, you are correct this is not in the setup menus.
If I choose a picture profile for movie in either camera and go into manual mode for instance then the picture profile stays set as per movie mode.
I suspect this has never been an issue for me as I set up the custom mode dial with typical good starting settings as follows 1 for Portrait settings 2 for action and 3 for landscape. In assigning these to the mode memories when you set the picture profile in movie and switch to a memory recall of 1,2 or 3 the picture profile setting is altered by the memory setting, in my case it auto magically reverts to PP off in all 3 memory settings. I seldom use the mode control in Av,Tv or manual.

Maybe this could work for you?

Hope that helps.

Angus.

Thanks Angus for taking time to reply ,must admit my mode dial settings are similar to yours but I often forget to use them . 1 are use for BIF 2 for Still birds and 3 for landscape . Didn't know it turns ppl automatically off using the mode dial. Must admit got into the manual mode mentality so I'm going to do some experimenting soon . Had my A9II over two years now and I'm still learning

Hi John,

I have never experienced this issue. So I pulled out my A7R2 and A7S to test, you are correct this is not in the setup menus.
If I choose a picture profile for movie in either camera and go into manual mode for instance then the picture profile stays set as per movie mode.
I suspect this has never been an issue for me as I set up the custom mode dial with typical good starting settings as follows 1 for Portrait settings 2 for action and 3 for landscape. In assigning these to the mode memories when you set the picture profile in movie and switch to a memory recall of 1,2 or 3 the picture profile setting is altered by the memory setting, in my case it auto magically reverts to PP off in all 3 memory settings. I seldom use the mode control in Av,Tv or manual.

Maybe this could work for you?

Hope that helps.

Angus.

 

[Angus Cameron]

Hi John,

Very much still learning myself. I found Mark Galers you tube channel and his Patreon site really good. My set up is based on what he calls his PAL system, I found that a great starting point and customised things to suit my own taste from there. I think I find little use for the other modes on the dial because I have three of the rear custom buttons reflecting modes 1 2 and 3 using the registered shooting settings.
Reg 1 portrait is set to button 9 (AF On), Reg 2 action is set to button 10 (AEL) and Reg 3 landscape is set to 15 (trash), no matter where I am with the camera I can hit one of those and instantly pick up settings for portrait, action or landscape. If you're a back button focuser you could use the movie record button for portrait.

You may of course use these buttons for other things but if you have not tried the registered shooting settings they are worth exploring.

I've become so accustomed to this set up on the A1 that I've just replaced my A7R2 with an A7R4 in part because it has the three memories on the mode dial and the same layout of custom buttons.

One tip, if you are going to mess around with all those settings use the save/load camset feature to save the settings you have now so you can revert to them if you don't like the way any modified set up is without undoing each step (don't ask me how I know this ).

Angus.

 

[Soundmike]

Hi John,

Very much still learning myself. I found Mark Galers you tube channel and his Patreon site really good. My set up is based on what he calls his PAL system, I found that a great starting point and customised things to suit my own taste from there. I think I find little use for the other modes on the dial because I have three of the rear custom buttons reflecting modes 1 2 and 3 using the registered shooting settings.
Reg 1 portrait is set to button 9 (AF On), Reg 2 action is set to button 10 (AEL) and Reg 3 landscape is set to 15 (trash), no matter where I am with the camera I can hit one of those and instantly pick up settings for portrait, action or landscape. If you're a back button focuser you could use the movie record button for portrait.

You may of course use these buttons for other things but if you have not tried the registered shooting settings they are worth exploring.

I've become so accustomed to this set up on the A1 that I've just replaced my A7R2 with an A7R4 in part because it has the three memories on the mode dial and the same layout of custom buttons.

One tip, if you are going to mess around with all those settings use the save/load camset feature to save the settings you have now so you can revert to them if you don't like the way any modified set up is without undoing each step (don't ask me how I know this ).

Angus.

Thanks Angus for the information,yes I've looked at Mark's patreon sight and got a lot from it ,he's like the workshop manual for every sony camera, it's just as well people like this are around because the instruction manual you get is basically useless . You do get into a bit of a rut sometimes with photography and camera settings,since I've been doing birds in flight I've always used Apsc crop basically to get as much of the bird in shot as I can but as time and experience goes on I've learned that quality without it does improve . That's why forums like this are so helpful .