Sony A1 Zebras during Playback?

[GracieAllen]

OK, the bizarre questions are getting less frequent.

I have Zebras turned on. And they’re OK in the viewfinder - I’m getting used to them. BUT, I’m used to a full-screen on the monitor display that shows areas of overexposure when I review the images. I can’t figure out how to get the zebras to show up on the playback in the monitor and give me a full-screen exposure display. I CAN get the zebras in the histogram display, but the image is so minute it’s worthless.

I don't SEE anything in the Playback Menu - doesn't mean it's not there, just that if it is I'm not seeing it...

Is there a way to have a full-screen display to show overexposed areas?

 

[GracieAllen]

Nothing on my Zebras question?

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Hi Gracie,
if you have your monitor set to off on the monitor playback display and in framing a shot through the viewfinder with Zebras switched to on in the menu you will see the zebras on the overexposed areas on the viewfinder(EV) and if you switich to monitor on by pressing the ok button of the rear control wheel you will also see the zebras on your monitor.

It depends how you have set up your EV/Monitor playback settings which will allow seeing the zebras on the EV or monitor, you will only see them on the shoot preview and not on the final shot playback.....

hope this helps.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Also be wary of your overall zebra level settings depending on your shooting genre as well as the level of zebras image density low/medium /high.

i do not use zebras and prefer to judge exposure from my histogram position alone.......I do use peaking however which is more important for my nature/wildlife shooting and provides focus feedback info so i can ensure I have appropriate focus coverage......

 

[GracieAllen]

If I understand your response(s), I have Zebras turned on and hopefully the level at 107+ or 109+. I'm SHOOTING and they show up. That all works.

If I understand what I've read and watched correctly (remembering that not everything I read in a forum is accurate), Zebra Level is supposed to indicate WHEN the stripes show up. I haven't seen a definition of exactly WHAT the numbers mean (I'm shooting stills so all the interminable video discussion is gibberish to me) but I presume at 100 you're at the right edge of the histogram - 100% for the jpg. From what I've read and watched, setting the level at the 107+ or 109+ is supposed to be "correct" for RAW images - as long as there are no stripes, the RAW doesn't have blown out highlights.

Is this accurate or is my understanding of what/how the Zebra works wrong?

From the reading I've done and videos I've watched I know there are people that LOVE the Zebras (Mark Smith seems to like them), and people that hate them... I'm trying to decide if I love them or not.

If they work the way I understand (questionable until confirmed or corrected), if I have a bunch of stripes in an area where I don't want them, I can use exposure compensation. Or manually change exposure.

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My PROBLEM is when I'm DONE and want to see how the image(s) look on the monitor - Playback. In my old world (Nikon), I had a full-screen display on the monitor that showed any areas that were overexposed by blinking (their version of Zebras). On the Sony I DON'T appear to have that display. If there's some setting (or bunch of settings) that DOES provide this for Playback, can someone tell me what they are? Or is this not available on the Alpha 1?

My process WAS (Nikon) - set up exposure using AF, take an image, review pops up with the overexposure display, no blinkies, increase exposure and shoot again. Look at monitor and repeat if no blinking. Once it STARTS blinking I know where JPGs are overexposed and I can increase the exposure for the RAW image and expose-to-the-right (usually I stay within about a stop of when the display shows overexposure). Is this process DIFFERENT on the Sony? I THOUGHT I was getting similar/equivalent information to what I used to get with the manual process above - so with the Zebra Level at 107+ (or 109+) I'd get the correct ETTR exposure with a lot less messing around doing shoot/review and creeping up on it. Right? Wrong? Drastically wrong and this isn't useful for stills, and I'll have to go back to guessing at tiny histograms.

I can USE the histogram, but it's always faster and easier to refine my exposure using the overexposure display.

As far as peaking - peaking is just a manual focus thing, right? It doesn't have anything to do with exposure? How does it interact with the Zebras?

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Ok a few related things to understand.......

1. when you look through your viewfinder or on the monitor you are seeing a JPG image which is actual if you
are shooting in JPG or extracted from the Raw image if shooting in RAW.

2. The histogram again reflects the details for the RAW image

3. If using the histogram as a gauge it is not therefore not giving you a good indication for your RAW images and
as Raw processing normally has better post processing recovery for highlights and shadows(dynamic range)
can be misleading.

4. Zebras are set at varying "levels" for different reasons(the set level indicative of exposure level)....down at 70 this
will indicate start/low exposure levels and whilst not critical for a Raw shooter can be important for jpg based
portraits and ensuring facial/skin exposure is correct.

5. For non portraits JPGs, 100 is the preferred set level for similar reasons and exposure needs to be lower than 100
because on JPG images you have less possibility to recover highlights and Shadows and hence you do not want your
exposure levels to be over 100 so that you recover exposure levels corresponding to 100 or less.

6. For RAW, low limit +109 is preferred because of the better ability to recover overexposed areas in post processing
and at 109 the dynamic range of most cameras will accomodate recovery of highlight detail and your EV/Monitor
will not be inundated with zebras until the low limit +109 is reached.
In shooting if you see zebras as a Raw shooter at a +109 setting then you need to adjust your exposure compensation
setting to eliminate the zebras on your EV/Monitor if you want to fully recover over exposure below 109 in post
processing..

Yes peaking is focus related and is for manual shooting and doesnt really have any bearing on Zebras..

Hope this helps to clarify........

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

In above read "The histogram again reflects the details for the JPG image" small typo........

 

[GracieAllen]

Thanks for the clarification…

I’m shooting RAW, so I’m only concerned about exposure there. I know I’m LOOKING at jpgs, so based on what I’d seen elsewhere, I believed 100 was the max for a jpg. It sounds like that’s accurate. And that using 107+ or 109+ will only show stripes in areas that exceed that value (the viewfinder stripes are accurate for the dynamic range of the RAW image).

Since the histogram is for the jpg, am I correct that it may show some push into the right edge when using a Zebra level greater than 100?

And there is no way to use Playback to see a full-screen display that shows the stripes for over- and/or over-exposure?

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

HI David yes you are right ......but remember in setting your zebra level for RAW set it to one of the 2 custom settings at" lower limit 109"
and this will ensure you will see zebras only when your proposed RAW image exceeds this level and allow you to adjust exposure compensation
to hopefully eliminate the zebras......some people are not bothered in shooting with zebras at lower settings but i like to limit them to 109.

For the histogram as it is based on the jpg image extracted from the Raw image, if the exposure level corresponds to 100 it will show hard against the
right side, if it is above 100 but not at 109 you will not see zebras but your histogram will again be hard against the right side....this is why for RAW shooters the zebras if not set on a low limit at 109 gives an EV view and histogram which can be misleading.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

On your last point if you feel that the zebras are important for your use case then set them with a lower limit
of say 100 or even lower and when you see zebras it will tell you where you have higher exposures and are
coming up to the limit for JPG but still have some further headroom for Raw images.......

 

[Clix Pix]

Thanks for the clarification…

I’m shooting RAW, so I’m only concerned about exposure there. I know I’m LOOKING at jpgs, so based on what I’d seen elsewhere, I believed 100 was the max for a jpg. It sounds like that’s accurate. And that using 107+ or 109+ will only show stripes in areas that exceed that value (the viewfinder stripes are accurate for the dynamic range of the RAW image).

Since the histogram is for the jpg, am I correct that it may show some push into the right edge when using a Zebra level greater than 100?

And there is no way to use Playback to see a full-screen display that shows the stripes for over- and/or over-exposure?

In the old days when we were shooting with DSLRs all of us reviewed our images immediately after shooting to ascertain if everything looked good with the exposure, composition, etc., and DSLRs all had "blinkies" which showed up when the highlights were blown or close to it. If we were still at the scene we could then immediately reshoot, adjusting our settings so that the next shot would be better exposed. This process, nicknamed "chimping, " was the only way we could be sure that everything was good about an image before moving on.

With a mirrorless camera and its EVF the information is all right there for us in the viewfinder and we can see instantly what happens when we accidentally overexpose or underexpose. If we go too far and have Zebras set up, they appear and warn us so that even before pressing the shutter button we can correct the exposure. That's SO much better and more convenient than "chimping" after the shot has already been made!

I think Zebras originated in the film industry and are used in videography and are definitely beneficial for us still shooters as well. They show up only during the shooting process, not in the playback later.

Bottom line: with mirrorless shooting there is no longer any need to "chimp".

 

[GracieAllen]

Yes, my process, particularly when doing things like macro or closeup work was to be in Manual, shoot an image based on the camera, review immediately. If no blinkies, increase exposure, repeat until I got an overexposure indication. That told me where the jpeg would overexpose and I could use that exposure or increase slightly to stay within the dynamic range of RAW for the camera.

It's nice to know that it won't be necessary to do that with the Alpha 1. Hopefully, Sony will update the firmware to implement image stacking so I can USE the Alpha 1 for macro work.

 

[Clix Pix]

I tend to use my A7R IV for most of my macro work, and the A1 for just about everything else.

Sony just DID a firmware update for the A1 so I doubt that we will be seeing another one soon.... None of Sony's cameras have on-board image stacking capability, but for those who are really interested in it, there are other ways to achieve the same thing. I've always been perfectly happy with shooting macro in the way it has been done for many years, as I like working with shallow DOF, so the whole trendy thing of image stacking hasn't really been of any concern to me.

 

[GracieAllen]

Yeah, I know...